General Community Resistant to Healer Damage?

[EaMett]

...

The issue with the "require more healing" route is that we already do have content that requires more healing. It's ultimate, and even that is a meager 20-30% healing. But it's already way beyond the reach of many.
In reality it's not the amount of healing required that needs to change but the damage distribution. You would need to spread damage in more random damage spikes as opposed to the choreographed encounters we currently have. The problem? SE are going the exact opposite with their design. They've removed critical hits from bosses, etc. etc.
This, like you've said, breads "lean" healing strategies where a good healer is measured by how little he can overheal and how much he can dps as a result.
You mentioned Sunwell earlier in the thread and that was kind of the opposite end of the spectrum. Promoted heavy healing where a good healer was measured by their ability to consistently overheal and not go OOM. Effective healing although important was relegated to the backseat since most healers were usually segregated to specific targets/groups. For those wondering, damage output was random, constant, and heavy. A lot could happen between the beginning of your cast and the end so keeping your heals rolling was a must, even on full health targets.

All this to say that there's got to be some middle ground but SE would need to change the way damage is dealt and alter mana management to go along with this. The main issue is that like other have mentioned. This means that the mana reworks for future (diff damage pattern) content would break past (current damage pattern) content and that will not slide so is unlikely to happen at all.

At this point everyone should realize that the dps meta we currently have is here to stay and healers should just get more diverse dps tools. That's all there is to it. SE can make a new MMO down the road with the lessons learned this time around.

[TaleraRistain]

I'm not sure where everyone has time to get bored but I stay very active as a White Mage no matter how many buttons I have to press. I lived through us being the bottom of the barrel. I'm surviving us being top of the list now. I've been one since 2014 and I'm not going to change anytime soon. I still greatly enjoy supporting my team keeping health at good levels and helping whittle things down. I have very little interest in a cookie-cutter rotation. I love the unpredictable nature of healing. I'm not bored at all.

[NanaWiloh]

There are 2 forms of healing in this game.

1. Savage: Where everyone has brains and things get to a point healers can predict when healing is needed and be efficient.

Example: Big wide raid damage coming everyone at 45% better heal them up

2. Duty finder: A vast Malestorm of random players of varying in skill levels with no way to perdict when healing will be needed and be efficient.

Example: Big raid wide damage coming. EVERYONE LOSES THEIR minds. Co-healer keeps dpsing, Joe and john dps stand outside of healing range, Tank for whatever reason drops defensive stance, off tank pulls adds into the raid, Player who has been dead for the last 5 minutes finally takes the rez they were given 2 minutes eariler just to be killed by the AOE. Other healer trying to aoe heal everyone just to have them scattered like Cockroaches when the lights are turned on..

[MartaDemireux]

When it comes to healer DPS, I just want something to do when healing isn't needed. It doesn't necessarily need to be DPS, but it should be interesting. Placing 1 DoT and spamming 1 nuke isn't interesting to me, especially when there is so much time when healing isn't needed.

As I've said in other threads, I would like to see monumental changes to healers that makes the time not spent healing not only unique, but interesting. They should ideally all contribute similar rDPS but have play-styles that do it very differently from one another. Their actual healing capabilities should all be equal and similar in execution - the difference is mostly in what you're doing when you're (frequently) not healing. Then, if your healer is making the most of their kit, they will really shine - but if they're not, they won't be a total detriment to the group. I wouldn't suggest tuning all fights to include high healer DPS - high numbers are less important than engaging gameplay.

AST: Make it the healer that feels like a full support job.

• Make buffing with cards on the GCD and have it be better rDPS than casting Malefic.
• Put Play on the GCD, but keep Draw as an oGCD.
• Extend buff duration to allow for 1-2 Malefic casts between buffs in an 8 person party.
• Add Draw II that allows the pulling of defensively aligned cards.
• Add Divination II that allows converting seals into a defensively aligned party buff.
• Start adding charges to Essential Dignity at an earlier level to make up for more GCDs being used on buffing.
• Have drawing cards grant a chance to enhance Benefic's potency to Benefic 2's (while keeping its lower MP cost and cast time) to give more use of the spell and its accompanying Enhanced Benefic trait (which should activate 100% of the time when triggered from an enhanced Benefic).

Gameplay would shift so that when you aren't healing, you're drawing and playing cards until everyone is buffed. When everyone is buffed, then you can cast Malefic/Gravity. They should see some more oGCD healing usage than WHM, but not as much as SCH.

SCH: Make it the healer that feels like a tactical DPS debuffer.

• Give them three DoTs:
  Miasma: Has a cast time. Duration on target is replenished to max 30s when Bio is cast.
  Poison: Instant cast. Duration on target is replenished to max 30s when Bio is cast.
  Bio: Instant cast. Duration 30s, Recast 15s.
• Alter Broil and so that its potency is increased depending on how many DoTs are up. Reduce its cast time a bit to facilitate better weaving of oGCD heals.
• Don't have DoTs interact with Art of War, but instead add Bane to SCH and adjust AoW potency to compensate for this.
• DoT durations should be halved with each cast of Broil. "Burning" away the toxins, if you will.
• To make up for more GCD DPS casts, give more oGCD healing: primarily be given more fairy heals.
• Give all fairy heals instant recast times and instead have them all cost cost Fairy Gauge points.
• Let them accumulate Fairy Gauge even with Dissipation up.
• Seraph should be a direct buff to all fairy heals instead of providing 1 ability.

Gameplay would shift to more GCDs spent casting DoTs/DPS spells. The basic "rotation" would see you cast Miasma > Poison > Bio (refreshes other DoTs so all have 30s) > Broil (DoTs have ~13s) > Broil (DoTs have ~5s) > Broil (DoTs start to fall off). If you're required to hardcast a heal or use Ruin II during movement, you're still generating DPS with your DoTs - if movement or healing requirements are very high, the DoTs are refreshed with Bio for static DPS. Ideally, though, much of their healing will come in the form of Aetherflow charges and the fairy abilities.

WHM: Make/keep it the healer whose DPS and healing capabilities are dependent upon each other.

• Capitalize on the Afflatus Misery/Blood Lily system. Your damage dealing capabilities should be in direct relation to your healing capabilities, and your damage dealing should enhance your healing capability.
• Have Cure/Cure II/Cure III/Medica/Medica II/Glare/Holy contribute toward Lily generation by reducing the time by maybe 5s-10s per hardcast.
• Add Afflatus Affliction: Deals more damage than Glare but less than Afflatus Misery. Has 3 maximum charges that refill one at a time after every lily-consuming ability.
• Add an HP shield to the list of Lily consuming abilities.
• Add a Lily consumer on perhaps a 1 minute timer that increases the rate at which your next lily is gained to prevent over-healing and allow triggering of Afflatus Misery/Affliction.
• Afflatus Misery/Affliction should have a chance to enhance your next Cure 1 cast to have Cure 2 potency (while keeping its lower MP cost and cast time) to give more use of the spell and its accompanying Freecure trait (which should activate 100% of the time when triggered from an enhanced Cure).

Gameplay would stay much the same as it currently is with a slight shift to more Lily interaction. Glare should only be used when Lilies aren't available, and also becomes a tool to increase the rate they are generated when healing isn't needed. HP shields and a Lily consumer allow for the use of Lilies without the detriment of capping at 3 and contribute to Afflatus Affliction use. This would remain the healer of choice for those that want big bursts of healing and big bursts of damage (within healer reason). It would have a very yin-yang feel. Your DPS/healing casts gives you more chances to use Lilies, which give you more chances to heal/shield, which gives you more chance to use Afflatus Affliction/Misery.

[Seraphor]

SCH: Make it the healer that feels like a tactical DPS debuffer.[LIST][*]Give them three DoTs:
Miasma: Has a cast time. Duration on target is replenished to max 30s when Bio is cast.
Poison: Instant cast. Duration on target is replenished to max 30s when Bio is cast.
Bio: Instant cast. Duration 30s, Recast 15s.[*]Alter Broil and so that its potency is increased depending on how many DoTs are up. Reduce its cast time a bit to facilitate better weaving of oGCD heals.[*]Don't have DoTs interact with Art of War, but instead add Bane to SCH and adjust AoW potency to compensate for this.

Oh my god please no.
SCH was already bad enough having to set up your AoE attacks with several GCD's, now it'd take 4 skills to spread your full AoE damage around, compared to 1 with AST/WHM.
Meanwhile DoTs have been nerfed on SMN for being too OP. You could deal consistent damage for 30s with just 3 GCD's compared to other healers who need 10 GCD's for the same effect.

DoT management is hell. There are plenty of ways to inject interesting gameplay mechanics without needing stacks and stacks of DoTs.

SCH already has 2 main dps skills where the others only have 1 (Broil and Ruin) without adding 3! more DoT skills.
Make the interplay between Broil and Ruin more interesting. Give us a reason to use Ruin outside of oGCD clipping optimisation.

The only thing I kinda like here is Broil cutting DoT time, and frankly I think this could be something for all healers as a way to effectively nerf DoTs while increasing their base potency so that they're more impactful.

[Recon1o6]

snip

You must be new in shb, because this was literally what scholar had in sb- several dots, a fairy that did her job well and less spam.
It was extremely fun and is the number 1 complaint about scholars this expansion, with number 2 being selene being deleted and number 3 being the fairy is no longer a pet but soaking your gcds

[MartaDemireux]

Oh my god please no.
SCH was already bad enough having to set up your AoE attacks with several GCD's, now it'd take 4 skills to spread your full AoE damage around, compared to 1 with AST/WHM.

DoT management is hell. There are plenty of ways to inject interesting gameplay mechanics without needing stacks and stacks of DoTs.

That's why I think 2 of them should be instant cast, so that they can be applied while running with the herd of enemies to where you kill them. If you're not there after 15s, pressing Bio would refresh them all on one target and then Bane spreads them again. As for 4 skills to spread, it would be 3 GCDs and 1 oGCD, which isn't much different than it was before with 3 GCDs and 2 oGCDs (Bio, Miasma, Bane, Shadow Flare, Miasma 2 (a DoT that was spammed)).

Having a different gameplay from AST and WHM is what is important. In an AoE situation, AST would still be using cards first and foremost before Gravity.

While you may think DoT management is hell, others enjoy that gameplay. It wouldn't hurt to have the gameplay represented. If you want a more direct job, WHM would be the one to go to. If you don't want to DPS much at all, AST would be the one to go to. If you want something else entirely, the groundwork would be laid out for a new healer to appear and make use of their non-healing time in a new way that you could suggest. There are plenty of interesting gameplay mechanics without needing DoTs, and they should be represented. But if a DoT gameplay is to be explored, it should be explored on the job that originally held that identity.

[Seraphor]

You must be new in shb, because this was literally what scholar had in sb- several dots, a fairy that did her job well and less spam.
It was extremely fun and is the number 1 complaint about scholars this expansion, with number 2 being selene being deleted and number 3 being the fairy is no longer a pet but soaking your gcds

Yes I know, and it's the reason I didn't play SCH until ShB.

[Billythepancake]

Yes I know, and it's the reason I didn't play SCH until ShB.

Then you could not play it again. Personally I love dots one of the many reasons I was drawn to SCH is because it had the most I'm the game, and I would kill to have more again.

I'll put it tits way. I hated AST in SB, but I wouldn't have changed it because I understood not every class needed to fit my playstyle. Every healer class playing the same, like they do now, is terrible because it's not hitting the same variety of people.

[Sylve]

No, a healer has to be efficiently using their toolkit, or they're a "bad" healer.

So can i apply that to Red Mages then? I will now expect them to cast Vercures on the regular so that they're "Efficiently" using their toolkit.

I expect Summoners to hardcast Raises and spam Physik too, because I'm busy "efficiently" using my toolkit.

Tossing a Glare or Malefic while everyone is full and no healing is required should be encouraged. The problem is the mentality from the general community that every GCD ever has to be a DPS spell otherwise you're "holding the team back". New Healers try to do that, fail miserably, get yelled at and quit Healing. Or staunchly refuse to toss a Glare out because theyve only had bad experiences trying in the past.

I would also like to point out that I've had dungeon runs be faster with a non-DPS Healer compared to subsequent runs where the Healer is near matching the Tank on DPS.
Healer DPS is negligible compared to whether or not the DPS are playing to the best of their ability.
They've said on multiple occasions that Healer dps isn't factored into clear requirements. I'm not even sure if they've ever confirmed outright that Savage requires Healers to DPS.

What's truly hilarious to me is that the Community complains that Healing is too easy and they spend so much time DPSing, yet any time a suggestion is made that would tune up the Healing requirement so that we spend more GCDs on Healing than DPS, it becomes "too stressful to healers" or they don't want to cast Cures instead of Glares.
Also, the response to my sarcasm in the first two lines will no doubt be along the lines of 'No because the DPS aren't there to Heal'. And yet the Healer has to do the damage dealers job while also doing their own job or they're bad. OK.