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  1. #61
    Player
    Payotz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    310
    Character
    Payotz Reading
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcann View Post
    if you are not healing 70% of the time then you are getting carried by good players ... players that are doing what they are supposed to be doing.
    that would be like DPS complaining that mobs are dying too fast.
    Damn, the standards of the community are so low that players who don't stand in AoEs, tanks that use cooldowns, DPS that knows their rotations and Healers that actually DPS are considered good.

    I don't agree that the game should be balanced around player's mistakes. They should assume that players know their cooldowns, know what the specific AoE markers are, and generally not stand in Fire.

    ---------------------------

    The main reason why healers mainly dps in this game is because you can pretty much predict when damage goes out, and most of the time, there's a 30 to a minute interval in between unavoidable AoEs. (except for a few fights with actual heal checks)
    Even when everything's gone wrong, you can pretty much just recover by using 3 GCDs and a few OGCDs max, and then you just go back to staring at the boss for 20 more seconds.
    And even then, usually there's a very long animation when the attack comes, which translates to more time staring at the boss, or there's like a very long castbar where you either dps the boss, OR you just stand there with the AST bubble looking like an idiot.

    So, what should healers do during that downtime after they used 2 Lilies to heal the party? DPS.

    Honestly, if they really want to make healers heal a lot more, they should add more heal checks to a lot of content, or they should add more unpredictable sources of damage to content.
    But this will result in a lot of people protesting against it. If they're protesting adding CT as required for MSQ, they're gonna not want the normal content to be more difficult.

    IMO, SE should just follow up on what they did with Tanks and embrace the DPS part of healing. People already map their cooldowns for specific mechanics anyway, might as well make the time between mechanics a lot more interesting.
    (20)
    Last edited by Payotz; 05-14-2020 at 10:17 AM.

  2. #62
    Player
    Gemina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Dravania
    Posts
    5,778
    Character
    Gemina Lunarian
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    OP, in case you hadn't noticed, this type of thread always turns into an echo chamber that houses two factions of healers. While the conversation exchanges do tend to stay civil, any kind of unity is seldom found. Especially when it comes to the DPS aspect of the job, so it isn't entirely accurate to state that the general community is resistant to healers doing damage. My own experience here would actually state the opposite. And no matter which side you lean towards, it is an indisputable fact that if healers are NOT contributing to damage, they are holding their group back. This is coming from a healer main who strongly opposes the green-DPS role.

    There is also a lot of speculation, and 'experts' who have the answer to everything. This goes on all the while the devs continue to remain silent, and just will not address this role with any kind of significance at any of the live letters, fanfests, and interviews. Due to this, one of the few consensuses among the healer community is that the role and the feedback pertaining to it is neglected by the dev team. Most of us simply believe they do not care, and those willing to give them the benefit of the doubt will think more along the lines of it being extremely difficult to address it without changing encounter design (all the more reason to communicate that).

    In short, there is a lot of masochism and patting yourself on the back required to find enjoyment in this role. You really have to do 24-man and up to push your heals in any kind of way. Even massive pulls in dungeons isn't much to deal with anymore unless your synced down to the lower levels. Still, when you've done x000 of them, they become pretty standard. NM raids, dungeons, roulettes, FATEs, Beast Tribe quests, Treasure dungeons, solo instances; all of these things suck to do as a healer in a very big way, and having a character that can "LEVEL EVERYTHING!" isn't an excuse for poor content design. Not at all.
    (3)

  3. #63
    Player
    Vulcann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    135
    Character
    Matic Zanleer
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Allegor View Post
    You are basically implying people should intentionally make mistakes just so we have something else to do.
    you're reading comprehension sucks if you actually think I'm implying that.
    (0)

  4. #64
    Player
    Allegor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    2,056
    Character
    Red Rider
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcann View Post
    you're reading comprehension sucks if you actually think I'm implying that.
    Your*

    And you were though. It's not the healer's fault at all if everyone's doing a decent job, so for us to spend most of our time healing, someone HAS to be stepping on orange, or not turning on their tank buster, or whatever that makes their HP drop down, which more often than not...they're not. What you're defending is an inherent design flaw.
    (18)

  5. #65
    Player
    Deceptus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Goblet - 16th Ward, Plot 55
    Posts
    4,418
    Character
    Deceptus Keelon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcann View Post
    if you are not healing 70% of the time then you are getting carried by good players ... players that are doing what they are supposed to be doing.

    that would be like DPS complaining that mobs are dying too fast.
    (24)
    Veteran healers don't care if we need to heal, but right now we don't. We want interesting things to do during the downtime other than a 30s dot and a single filler spell that hasn't changed from lvl 4 to lvl 90.
    Dead DPS do no DPS. Raised DPS do 25/50% lower DPS. Do the mechanics and don't stand in bad stuff.
    Other games expect basic competence, FFXIV is pleasantly surprised by it. Other games have toxic elitism. FFXIV has toxic casualism.[/LIST]

  6. #66
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14,070
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Videra View Post
    I find healing absolutely mind-numbing in the state it's in right now. I'm not going to argue that it's factually dull, but I'd love to hear your view on the matter - how do you enjoy healing? I'm struggling to wrap my brain around the idea.
    I'm not the person you were asking, but I'm okay with the current state of healing.

    More buttons doesn't make the job more exciting to me, just more confusing. Give me a single-target spell and an AoE spell, maybe something fun I can fire off every so often (I do love Assize's animation), but don't have to think too hard about when to apply them so I can put that attention into watching the party's health instead. Even when everything seems to be going well, it can suddenly nosedive.

    I wouldn't use healer for solo quest progression though. Use a DPS class for that, and level healer through roulettes instead - I'm needed more there and it's a more interesting way to level.


    Quote Originally Posted by Allegor View Post
    You are basically implying people should intentionally make mistakes just so we have something else to do.
    They didn't phrase it the best, and I don't agree with the "carried by the good people" statement, but people don't have to be intentionally making mistakes to give you something to do. They just make mistakes. It's inevitable. Therefore you have healing to do.

    The amount of work varies greatly between instances - some are easy now, but others are actually still hard work depending on item synch and the state of your party.

    Most likely healing isn't being tuned for endgame high-level play, but for the average player dealing with a non-expert team in dungeons.
    (0)

  7. #67
    Player
    Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,635
    Character
    Ifalna Sha'yoko
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    While I have 0 interest in an overly complicated DPS rotation with a gazillion buttons to press in the right order (If I did, I would play *drumroll* a DPS class), I do agree that basically mashing one button for most of the fight is pretty ... erm... lame. Esp in content that doesn't require a lot of healing in the first place.
    (1)

  8. #68
    Player
    FoxCh40s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    332
    Character
    Source Eldion
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    I'm not the person you were asking, but I'm okay with the current state of healing.

    More buttons doesn't make the job more exciting to me, just more confusing. Give me a single-target spell and an AoE spell, maybe something fun I can fire off every so often (I do love Assize's animation), but don't have to think too hard about when to apply them so I can put that attention into watching the party's health instead. Even when everything seems to be going well, it can suddenly nosedive.

    I wouldn't use healer for solo quest progression though. Use a DPS class for that, and level healer through roulettes instead - I'm needed more there and it's a more interesting way to level.




    They didn't phrase it the best, and I don't agree with the "carried by the good people" statement, but people don't have to be intentionally making mistakes to give you something to do. They just make mistakes. It's inevitable. Therefore you have healing to do.

    The amount of work varies greatly between instances - some are easy now, but others are actually still hard work depending on item synch and the state of your party.

    Most likely healing isn't being tuned for endgame high-level play, but for the average player dealing with a non-expert team in dungeons.
    And what kind of team is that? The brain dead one with the Summoner barely pulling 2.3k dps in AoE, never touching Pheonix or Bahamut, with the tank not having Blackest Night and not knowing what a cooldown is, with the Bard AFK the entire time and the party wont kick them because "reasons!"?

    Just kill me now if they are tuning healing for that, because that's not gameplay, that insanity and idiocy being praised. Back in HW people actually had to pull their damn weight, and if you sucked you got kicked, PERIOD.

    You cant handle more than one or two button's on healer? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? You're joking, you HAVE TO BE.

    I'm tired of the community being coddled and not being allowed to fail, if you suck you suck, you get kicked scrub, and you either quit, or you shore up and get better and figure out what you're doing wrong.

    I play Healers in literally EVERY game I play, and do you know what I do in my downtime? DPS. Cleric? Flame Strike or smack the crap out of that Vampire with Cure Wounds. Dragon Age? Fist of the Maker or Bolt the ever loving s**t out of them, or freeze them and set them up for the warriors to shatter them?

    Healer's dont just heal, never have, never will. We giveth and we taketh away, and nothing will ever change that.
    (16)

  9. #69
    Player
    Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,635
    Character
    Ifalna Sha'yoko
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by FoxCh40s View Post
    And what kind of team is that? The brain dead one with the Summoner barely pulling 2.3k dps in AoE, never touching Pheonix or Bahamut, with the tank not having Blackest Night and not knowing what a cooldown is, with the Bard AFK the entire time and the party wont kick them because "reasons!"?

    I'm tired of the community being coddled and not being allowed to fail, if you suck you suck, you get kicked scrub, and you either quit, or you shore up and get better and figure out what you're doing wrong.
    I'm afraid, that's exactly what they a balancing for. Only exclusion would be savage and ultimate.
    I've found that I have a decent amount to heal in savage encounters but damage typically comes in frantic bursts with long phases of relaxation in between. You're mostly DPSing in those phases.

    Yeah the community is being coddled big time, esp those special snowflake DPS players. Parsers (a.k.a. responsibility for DPS players) is an absolute no-no but dissing tanks and heals that might make a mistake or not pull fast enough to suit the DPS's fancy is pretty common. The doubly standard displayed by both SE and the community is hilarious and frustrating at times.
    (2)

  10. #70
    Player
    MelodyCrystel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    182
    Character
    Anemone Blanc'rose
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemina View Post
    In short, there is a lot of masochism and patting yourself on the back required to find enjoyment in this role.
    Ouch, what an ugly opinion about being a healer.

    I picked with my Main (back in summer 2015) the starting-class Conjurer out of free will - and never regretted this decision up to this day.

    Might be because I played FF3 / 4 / Tactics Advance / A2 / all 13-parts before joining ARR a ka HW, but I always feel very comfortable with commanding a healer instead of tank / attacker / supporter.
    ->Especially when I know an instance, I think I can do the most for a group when I care for their HP--- explicitly when I happen to play a Shieldhealer, I can prevent unnecessary deaths.
    (It's also a relief when I don't have to ask a healer for throwing now and then an attack, to be honest. I think as long as everybody isn't in danger, healers should definitely feel free to attack.)
    (4)

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