General Community Resistant to Healer Damage?

[Recon1o6]

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You must be new in shb, because this was literally what scholar had in sb- several dots, a fairy that did her job well and less spam.
It was extremely fun and is the number 1 complaint about scholars this expansion, with number 2 being selene being deleted and number 3 being the fairy is no longer a pet but soaking your gcds

[Seraphor]

You must be new in shb, because this was literally what scholar had in sb- several dots, a fairy that did her job well and less spam.
It was extremely fun and is the number 1 complaint about scholars this expansion, with number 2 being selene being deleted and number 3 being the fairy is no longer a pet but soaking your gcds

Yes I know, and it's the reason I didn't play SCH until ShB.

[Enla]

You must be new in shb, because this was literally what scholar had in sb- several dots, a fairy that did her job well and less spam.
It was extremely fun and is the number 1 complaint about scholars this expansion, with number 2 being selene being deleted and number 3 being the fairy is no longer a pet but soaking your gcds

Honestly I've been desperately missing Selene of late and the utility she brought to even casual content. Eos was always better for healing, but there are several fights, particularly in Alliance Raids, where Selene's mass-esuna was a god send. (Rofocale in Rabanastre coming to mind immediately given how blind most parties tend to be when it comes to his leg hold traps. One click of a button and everyone would be instantly freed and it was frankly so satisfying to do.) Having Eos and Selene basically being reskins of one another now and with all of the faerie utility stripped away that isn't strictly healing focused just made the job all the more dull in my opinion. As did the removal of dot management which, while I was never a hardcore raider back in SB or prior, actually was pretty fun and engaging for me.

What makes me the most despondent however, is the knowledge that in spite of how fed up the general healer community has been with most of the changes made to their classes and the lack of appropriate balance to encounter design to compensate, it's likely only going to get worse in 6.0.

[MartaDemireux]

Oh my god please no.
SCH was already bad enough having to set up your AoE attacks with several GCD's, now it'd take 4 skills to spread your full AoE damage around, compared to 1 with AST/WHM.

DoT management is hell. There are plenty of ways to inject interesting gameplay mechanics without needing stacks and stacks of DoTs.

That's why I think 2 of them should be instant cast, so that they can be applied while running with the herd of enemies to where you kill them. If you're not there after 15s, pressing Bio would refresh them all on one target and then Bane spreads them again. As for 4 skills to spread, it would be 3 GCDs and 1 oGCD, which isn't much different than it was before with 3 GCDs and 2 oGCDs (Bio, Miasma, Bane, Shadow Flare, Miasma 2 (a DoT that was spammed)).

Having a different gameplay from AST and WHM is what is important. In an AoE situation, AST would still be using cards first and foremost before Gravity.

While you may think DoT management is hell, others enjoy that gameplay. It wouldn't hurt to have the gameplay represented. If you want a more direct job, WHM would be the one to go to. If you don't want to DPS much at all, AST would be the one to go to. If you want something else entirely, the groundwork would be laid out for a new healer to appear and make use of their non-healing time in a new way that you could suggest. There are plenty of interesting gameplay mechanics without needing DoTs, and they should be represented. But if a DoT gameplay is to be explored, it should be explored on the job that originally held that identity.

[Billythepancake]

Yes I know, and it's the reason I didn't play SCH until ShB.

Then you could not play it again. Personally I love dots one of the many reasons I was drawn to SCH is because it had the most I'm the game, and I would kill to have more again.

I'll put it tits way. I hated AST in SB, but I wouldn't have changed it because I understood not every class needed to fit my playstyle. Every healer class playing the same, like they do now, is terrible because it's not hitting the same variety of people.

[Billythepancake]

I am an ABC healer. I always have been, even when CS was a thing and I was learning SCH and stance dancing made me nervous. If I'm not healing, I sneak in some DPS.

But this is what I don't get about everyone complaining about healers who stand around doing nothing. The only runs I have where I spend the majority of my time DPS-ing as a healer are runs I do with my Trusts. If I'm in a dungeon with people, the tank pulls loads, the DPS take damage, I count myself lucky if I manage to throw in any DoTs. I mean I Holy as much as I can, but that's only effective for mitigating damage the first few casts; after that everything gets a bit hair-raising. I really don't get all that much opportunity to use Art of War on SCH. Yeah on bosses I can DPS more, but I don't spend anything like 60% of my time with nothing to do (if I don't DPS). Even more so on AST.

So my question is, where are all these amazing dungeon runners that only need a minimum of healing and why are they never in my parties?

I've never needed an amazing tank or DPS to be able to DPS as a healer, I just know my kit well enough to know how to get the most out of it. I also know a tank doesn't need to have every booboo kissed away, same for a DPS. If a DPS is missing 50% HP, but they're not taking damage and won't for awhile, why bother wasting the time to heal, just let natural regens and fairy handle it. I've had plenty of window lickers in my dungeon runs, and I'll still find the time to DPS. SCH is probably one of the best at dungeons, you can cast an oGCD heal in between every single art of war. WHM holy spam will stop a pull for at least a third of their casts, if not more.

[Billythepancake]

So what you're telling me is that in a perfectly optimized run, with members of your static with whom you play regularly and have full trust in are able to power your way through a dungeon that you are fifty item levels overgeared for with oGCDs.

Its almost like being grossly overgeared for content reduces the Healing requirements to a negligible level. Whodathunkit.

Also, when i speak of constant party damage not on a clock/timer, I mean it exactly as i wrote it. Constant. Yet somehow everyone here automatically goes to the stupid extreme of assuming the request is for the boss to basically randomly Tank buster someone in the party.
Constant, mid level damage that will be fatal if left alone long enough that happens with enough frequency that oGCDs and cooldowns will not be enough by themselves is what I'm after.

One other thing that I badly want for SE to give us is a built-in <tt> effect on Healer damage buttons. Being able to nuke the boss while scrolling the party list is a godsend that currently requires macros and their associated penalties.
That alone would assist in getting some Healers to feel more comfortable throwing the odd DPS spell out.

Constant damage is a terrible idea, if only because not every healer class is designed to handle it. SCH is screwed in situations where they need to spam GCDs. They're expensive and inefficient, hence why it's better to use oGCDs unless you absolutely need to GCD heal, you'd have to completely change that class if you were to swap to such a model. Even in unoptimized runs, where I've had window lickers, I could find time to DPS. Unless the other members were literally running into orange circles on purpose and collecting vuln stacks like they were trading cards, there is plenty of time to DPS if you know your kit and you know that people don't need every booboo kissed away.

[Sylve]

Constant damage is a terrible idea, if only because not every healer class is designed to handle it. SCH is screwed in situations where they need to spam GCDs. They're expensive and inefficient, hence why it's better to use oGCDs unless you absolutely need to GCD heal, you'd have to completely change that class if you were to swap to such a model. Even in unoptimized runs, where I've had window lickers, I could find time to DPS. Unless the other members were literally running into orange circles on purpose and collecting vuln stacks like they were trading cards, there is plenty of time to DPS if you know your kit and you know that people don't need every booboo kissed away.

Oh really? SCH wouldn't be able to handle the party taking damage on the regular?
The job with a pet that auto heals anyone who takes damage.
The job with abundant, powerful shielding effects?
The job that also has access to Regens?

THAT job would suddenly be unplayable were the Party to take damage outside of the script?

So you mean to tell me that SCH is unplayable in groups that do frequently stand in the fire?

Once again. Make up your mind. You claim healing is soooo easy that you only need to spend oGCDs over the course of an entire run, but then a suggestion that would place a heavier burden on the party than oGCDs alone can cover would suddenly make the current Healer jobs with more Healing options than we ever apparently need too hard to play?

[Deceptus]

The job with a pet that auto heals anyone who takes damage.

For miniscule amounts as inefficiently as possible, also with delays.

The job with abundant, powerful shielding effects?

Yeah, that 180 potency succor shield is so much.

The job that also has access to Regens?

At level 80. Unless you're talking about Whispering Dawn, which suffers from the pet healing potency reduction. Fairy potency is functionally equivalent to potency*0.66. A whopping 79 potency per tick.

So you mean to tell me that SCH is unplayable in groups that do frequently stand in the fire?

While not unplayable, lower level SCH play is pretty bad when it comes to AOE damage and it has almost always been that way.

[ForteNightshade]

So what you're telling me is that in a perfectly optimized run, with members of your static with whom you play regularly and have full trust in are able to power your way through a dungeon that you are fifty item levels overgeared for with oGCDs.

How about Holminster Switch with a rando tank in 380-390 gear and I'm on Scholar—my worst healer by no small margin? Oh, and he pulled the whole room. Admittedly, I spam healed a lot more than I ever would on White Mage but I still contributed decent enough damage on a healer I don't know very well. How? I looked up how it played beforehand. Momo Sama has a fantastic guide.

Maybe people shouldn't jump onto jobs they don't know much about then get upset when it frustrates others.

Once again. Make up your mind. You claim healing is soooo easy that you only need to spend oGCDs over the course of an entire run, but then a suggestion that would place a heavier burden on the party than oGCDs alone can cover would suddenly make the current Healer jobs with more Healing options than we ever apparently need too hard to play?

You keep making Strawmen.

If you fundamentally change the encounter design, you also have to consider how it impacts each job. White Mage, for example, is an MP battery that practically can't run out. It can handle persistent AoE healing but Astro, functionally, cannot. You wouldn't make healing harder, you'd be forcing Astro players to literally do nothing but heal because they couldn't afford to waste any MP on DPS spells. This causes an imbalance as now White Mage is far and away superior since it can accomplish both mass AoE healing and dealing damage without running out of MP.

Now I'm all for more outgoing damage and greater emphasise on healing but should they go in that direction, 6.0 needs to give all three healers (hopefully four) the tools to handle it.