Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[Liam_Harper]

Even if we drink the kool-aid and assume 5000 subs left early (lets say 2%) it's the people who essentially had all 7 new pieces with all 35 materia slots filled, 2 days after the content released and were back to activating macros soon after. So they had a tantrum and hit the unsub button. Because people didn't flock to the market board to pay tens of millions of Gil to furnish themselves in a new temporary best.

It's hilarious casual crafters still think gil is a thing.

We really don't care about gil. I have tons of gil. I can make tons more if I want. No matter how much crafting is simplified we can make more gil because we know the markets well.

It's because there's nothing to do at endgame. We're bored of being gil machines, endlessly churning out the same items via macros. Casual crafters will discover this soon, once their accelerated leveling catapults them to melded lv80. There's nothing at the top. All you have is churn out Facet items endlessly on 2 buttons, list them on the mb, undercut, repeat.
The best 2.5 star lv70 Durability macro was so simple it was discovered day 1. Scrips, materia and materials were so accessible and easy to acquire the new set was made day 1. And that's it, patch over until Ishgard. You'll learn that soon enough.

[Talam]

Anyways, nobody has statistical data on subscriptions in FFXIV from 2016 - Now, unless you’re trying to tell me you somehow do. :P My point is, it’s disingenuous and quite pretentious to imply less than 1% of crafters quit because of crafting’s nerfs. It’s most definitely higher than that.

So in the same paragraph, you say that nobody has statistical data on subscriptions, but then suggest that more than 1% of crafters quit because of the crafting changes. Do you not see the inherent contradiction here?

[CookiesNCreams]

So in the same paragraph, you say that nobody has statistical data on subscriptions, but then suggest that more than 1% of crafters quit because of the crafting changes. Do you not see the inherent contradiction here?

That’s called using common sense and an educated guess based on what you’ve seen. I have actually known plenty of hardcore crafters before they quit across 3 servers, and I have not seen them since. So, based on using common sense, the average person can surmise that unfortunately, it’s likely the norm for these types of players.

You’re trying to imply you can prove me wrong, even though you have not known very many hardcore crafters personally, if, at all? Which, you likely do not. As far as I’m concerned, we’re in the same boat. Except one person is a hardcore crafter/knows hardcore crafters, and one does not. Sounds kind of silly if that’s what you’re suggesting. Look back at what I said and see who’s really contradicting here.

[Jojoya]

That’s called using common sense and an educated guess based on what you’ve seen. I have actually known plenty of hardcore crafters before they quit across 3 servers, and I have not seen them since. So, based on using common sense, the average person can surmise that unfortunately, it’s likely the norm for these types of players.

You’re trying to imply you can prove me wrong, even though you have not known very many hardcore crafters personally, if, at all? Which, you likely do not. Sounds kind of silly if that’s what you’re suggesting. Look back at what I said and see who’s really contradicting here.

So you know a relative handful of crafters who quit playing because they feel crafting isn't hardcore enough.

Okay. That's their choice. People quit playing games all the time for whatever reasons suit their fancy.

Why they were expecting things to be more difficult this patch is beyond me. SE told us that the Ishgard leaderboards were going to be the crafter/gatherer end game and more difficult recipes would be getting added later in the expansion. They were pretty clear that this patch was about making crafting and gathering more accessible to the general player base, and giving us an introduction to the Ishgard systems so we could get used to them before the leaderboards start (probably in 5.2).

Complain all you want for now. It's not going to change anything. SE has their plan in place for introducing more challenging content for crafters. Until it's implemented into the game so we can see and evaluate what they came up with, you're just blowing a lot of useless hot air over things that were never intended to be about you in the first place.

[CookiesNCreams]

Complain all you want for now. It's not going to change anything. SE has their plan in place for introducing more challenging content for crafters. Until it's implemented into the game so we can see and evaluate what they came up with, you're just blowing a lot of useless hot air over things that were never intended to be about you in the first place.

Since you really want to go there, crafting was originally not intended for players such as yourself, to be honest. Look back in 2.0 ARR. (not 1.0) How was crafting then? You think you could just pick up a rotation you found online and start slamming HQ endgame recipes like it’s cake? You think you could just get guaranteed HQ touches on a craft and everything will be just fine and dandy? You think you can only spend a few hours grinding for master books?

No.

Crafting originally, was intended for a serious player base. It was only until 4.0 where Yoshida kind of shilled out and turned it into a casual only thing. You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, sorry. I just find it funny how you really believe this was intended for players like you, it wasn’t. Debate with me all you want, it’s not going to go anywhere. It. Wasn’t. Intended. For. You. They changed it in 4.0 to make it so. Which, is fine.

Just don’t be selfish and try to push out the people who jumped on crafting since 2.0. They deserve content too. And like I said, this thread is basically a protest and an awareness thread for that. If Ishgard will meet our needs, this thread will die overtime. If it doesn’t, expect to see this thread for the next year or so.

[LalafellDown]

Love the new crafting update. I don’t need to click 100 button just to craft some juice.

[CookiesNCreams]

Love the new crafting update. I don’t need to click 100 button just to craft some juice.

You never needed to click 100 buttons before 5.1. I’m like 99% sure you just used a macro you found. What are you talking about?

[Ksenia]

It's hilarious casual crafters still think gil is a thing.

We really don't care about gil. I have tons of gil. I can make tons more if I want. No matter how much crafting is simplified we can make more gil because we know the markets well.

It's because there's nothing to do at endgame. We're bored of being gil machines, endlessly churning out the same items via macros. Casual crafters will discover this soon, once their accelerated leveling catapults them to melded lv80. There's nothing at the top. All you have is churn out Facet items endlessly on 2 buttons, list them on the mb, undercut, repeat.
The best 2.5 star lv70 Durability macro was so simple it was discovered day 1. Scrips, materia and materials were so accessible and easy to acquire the new set was made day 1. And that's it, patch over until Ishgard. You'll learn that soon enough.

Because that is what you have chosen to do! You found the path of least resistance, the most direct route to the finish line and you barreled in as fast as you could. All fueled by 800 million Gil meaning you don't need to wait for anything. Fling Gil at the MB, crunch the options, make the macro and start manufacturing tears for a forum.


Let me link it again

I'm not out of stuff to do. I'm not going to be, for a very very long time. Since I made that video I leve, leveled 3 FC member so they can participate in the rebuild content. I've continued to level odd classes on all of them. I've continued to do what you say you like but always find new ways to kill for yourself so you can cry a blu-blu on a forum. And what is your answer to any alternative beyond cry moar? Oh but, oh but. It isn't that it became easier. It's that everyone figured it out. Square can't put that mystery back. If you enjoy crafting, craft MORE. If you want a challenge, you might want to try a new video game because no matter what SE do, this one won't make that happen. Not 6 years after release.

[Talam]

That’s called using common sense and an educated guess based on what you’ve seen. I have actually known plenty of hardcore crafters before they quit across 3 servers, and I have not seen them since. So, based on using common sense, the average person can surmise that unfortunately, it’s likely the norm for these types of players.

You’re trying to imply you can prove me wrong, even though you have not known very many hardcore crafters personally, if, at all? Which, you likely do not. As far as I’m concerned, we’re in the same boat. Except one person is a hardcore crafter/knows hardcore crafters, and one does not. Sounds kind of silly if that’s what you’re suggesting. Look back at what I said and see who’s really contradicting here.

That's not common sense, that's confirmation bias. You've decided that since you knew hardcore crafters who no longer play, with some of them telling you that they were quitting because of the crafting changes, that all of them had to quit over crafting changes and that this normal for the majority of hardcore crafters.

What I'm trying to do is point out that the foundation of your arguments based on 'knowing people' is shaky at best. You haven't provided any real numbers as to how many hardcore crafters you did know, not even ballpark figures. You didn't provide how many of them talked to you about their quitting due to the crafting changes, and no one has numbers on how many players actually engage in crafting, let alone how many qualify as hardcore. Have you even conducted a survey across multiple sites like the official forums here and reddit?

All I've read so far is a whole lot of opinions and people trying to push opinions as facts. If anyone is going to semi-seriously throw out numbers or pass themselves off as an authority, they should have actual findable data and research to back it up.

[Callinon]

If anyone is going to semi-seriously throw out numbers or pass themselves off as an authority, they should have actual findable data and research to back it up.

If that information exists, only SE has it. And I rather doubt even they have it broken down by "hardcore" crafter unsubs vs other unsubs.