Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[CookiesNCreams]

I wouldn't say that's necessarily 'for worse' - it was already resolved back when they added prudent touch, it seems, and people are only now seeing the writing on the wall now that that trend of making the system approachable has continued up into Shadowbringers.

Turns out having more people able to participate in the highest and most profitable tiers of crafting is a good thing!

Giving everyone a “Good Job!” kindergarten participation sticker isn’t really a good thing for keeping items valuable, though.

[Maeka]

I wouldn't say that's necessarily 'for worse' - it was already resolved back when they added prudent touch, it seems, and people are only now seeing the writing on the wall now that that trend of making the system approachable has continued up into Shadowbringers.

Turns out having more people able to participate in the highest and most profitable tiers of crafting is a good thing!

Yeah, turns out breaking up monopolies and free market benefits more people than what you'd get if a couple companies ruled everything.

Giving everyone a “Good Job!” kindergarten participation sticker isn’t really a good thing for keeping items valuable, though.

lol.

"If I can't grow a big epeen over these 0s and 1s then I feel no sense of self-worth" or something like that. Seriously. Does EVERYTHING have to be a bragging rights, "LOOK WHAT I GOT THAT YOU DON'T"? I mean really now.

I really do not understand people who have to get their sense of self-worth over 0s and 1s in a game. Where people don't care what a mount looks like, just as long as it was hard as frick to get.

Me? I just wanna use something that looks cool, even if it was handed out. I don't care how hard it was, or wasn't to get.

[Aurida]

Crafted items aren't supposed to be valuable. They're supposed to fill slots until you get tomestone or raid equipment.

[CookiesNCreams]

Crafted items aren't supposed to be valuable. They're supposed to fill slots until you get tomestone or raid equipment.

HQ Crafted items used to have value until prudent touch made endgame crafting far too much of a joke, though. In other words, they had value before that happened. So yes, they are supposed to be.

Although in Ishgard 5.2, it’s hard to say what’ll be made valuable then. Maybe exclusive tools and gear you can only get by being top 5 on your server. Who knows.

[Callinon]

Crafted items aren't supposed to be valuable. They're supposed to fill slots until you get tomestone or raid equipment.

I mean some of them are. Primal weapons and glamour gear are undeniably meant to be valuable. They're also made of rarer or more expensive materials, so that will also increase their value.

Thing is though, their value decreases over time as more supply enters the market and gradually outstrips demand. This is a natural progression of any market economy. The closest thing we get to innovation (and therefore new products) is when a new patch comes out and then that stuff is REALLY expensive.. for example see shell leather right now. There isn't very much of it floating around, and it makes something that looks cool (though is useless for all practical purposes), so it's valuable.

[Aurida]

I mean some of them are. Primal weapons and glamour gear are undeniably meant to be valuable. They're also made of rarer or more expensive materials, so that will also increase their value.

Oh well yeah definitely, but that's sorta a different conversation since anyone with the relevant class at max level could always make that stuff. Glamour's one thing and it's nice that the difficulty of it is linked to obtaining the materials rather than selling them.

When I speak of crafted gear I mean the master book stuff that has the same iLv as the normal raid equipment.

[Callinon]

Oh well yeah definitely, but that's sorta a different conversation since anyone with the relevant class at max level could always make that stuff. Glamour's one thing and it's nice that the difficulty of it is linked to obtaining the materials rather than selling them.

When I speak of crafted gear I mean the master book stuff that has the same iLv as the normal raid equipment.

Yeah those are generally only really valuable right at the start of a raid tier when progression raiders are using overmelds to cheese stat requirements they don't yet have the raid gear to meet. After that their value goes down sharply because people are only using them to gear alt jobs.

Personally I prefer glamour items for crafting. The market is much less volatile and SOMEONE always wants them.

[Maeka]

HQ Crafted items used to have value until prudent touch made endgame crafting far too much of a joke, though.

So, them being easier to get somehow makes them less useful as equipment, or more ugly as glamours. Okaaaay.

In other words, they had value before that happened.

Does everything have to be about how much farking gil you can make off of it, or epeen factor? Seriously. I really don't get this obsession with making so stinking much gil that you don't know what to do with.

Dunno about anybody else, but I thought the value in, say, a weapon is how much damage it does, or in the case of a glam weapon, how good it looks.

I really never understood this "It's hard to get or it's rare therefore it's more valuable" ... I've seen some terrible weapons that (to me) look absolutely ugly, or they are obsolete and people still want hundreds of K for them and I scratch my head going "uh, why?" (not counting of course, say, weapons used in relic weapon quests or what-not).

[Jojoya]

To make hardcore only content, you have to make a barrier. It’s impossible to make it accessible to casual players. .

How do you create a barrier to something that's nothing more than a math problem? Anyone willing to take the time can sit down and do the addition/multiplication necessary to get the required result.

You can make the result open-ended so those who know how to utilize their actions more effectively will obtain a higher result but that's not a barrier to entry.

You can add in RNG, but that becomes a random barrier to everyone. The only way to get past that barrier is through luck in repetition. It's hardly an indication of skill.

You can add in outrageous gear requirements, but that's only a barrier if the player doesn't want to take the time to obtain the needed gear/melds.

The only real barrier to crafting is personal interest. Either it's content that highly appeals to the player so they choose to commit more time to it or they decide it's not worth their time and they move to other things.

If you have an idea of how to create a barrier to separate the hardcore player from the average player, share it with us.

I'm still curious what sort of player you think I am since you're so convinced I'm beneath you when you still know nothing about me. But get up on your faux elite pedestal and pretend you're better than others if it gives you a measure of self esteem you're apparently not getting from real life.

[CookiesNCreams]

But get up on your faux elite pedestal and pretend you're better than others if it gives you a measure of self esteem you're apparently not getting from real life.

I was actually going to agree with you and apologize, but it seems you really want to continue being hostile like two previous posters. I understand Hardcore crafting is a sensitive and touchy subject for a lot of folks, but please keep your hostility in check.

Do me a favor and add me to your Ignore List, saves me the trouble of doing it myself. Bottom line is, we’re getting content, whether you like it or not, so there’s really no point in going back and forth with such hostility. Doesn’t matter how many people like you come on this thread, I’m going to make sure it is at least brought to Square’s attention, mkay? (Which I’m sure it already has, judging by what Yoshida has said so far.)

If anyone is actually willing to discuss this without being negative and hateful, I’m all ears.