Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[CookiesNCreams]

LMAO the fact you think crafting has a "HARDCORE" history or need is comical. Crafting has never been hardcore.

Oh boy, aren’t you the same guy who told crafters with opposing opinions, pretty immature and unnecessary stuff such as “you’re a waste of oxygen?” lol Welcome back! Let’s try to have a debate without blurting out immature things, and let’s try to keep our emotions in check, okay? So, where do I start.....basically, like, you’re wrong.

[DrWho2010]

lol the amount of people that actually quit and cancelled subs over crafting is probably like 0.01%

[CookiesNCreams]

lol the amount of people that actually quit and cancelled subs over crafting is probably like 0.01%

You’re wrong about that, it’s actually quite a lot of people, lol. Don’t make baseless assumptions about things you know nothing about. “0.01%”, apparently you work at square Enix now. :P

[Ksenia]

lol the amount of people that actually quit and cancelled subs over crafting is probably like 0.01%

Even if we drink the kool-aid and assume 5000 subs left early (lets say 2%) it's the people who essentially had all 7 new pieces with all 35 materia slots filled, 2 days after the content released and were back to activating macros soon after. So they had a tantrum and hit the unsub button. Because people didn't flock to the market board to pay tens of millions of Gil to furnish themselves in a new temporary best.



tl:dr, Who cares, right?

[Talam]

You’re wrong about that, it’s actually quite a lot of people, lol. Don’t make baseless assumptions about things you know nothing about. “0.01%”, apparently you work at square Enix now. :P

Okay, so 0.01% is some random number tossed out, but do you have any data to suggest that the number of people who have or would quit over the crafting changes are in any way noticeable, something that would stand out from the usual gains and losses that an MMO goes through. And no, "I've talked with people or heard things" is not data.

As the hypothetical scenario of implementing RNG into Endgame crafting, and only endgame crafting, oh boy, speaking as someone who has a computing science degree and has done some coding, what a pain in the ass to code for not a whole lot of gain. The work required to isolate it so that it only affects endgame crafting content, combined with the design challenge of making sure it meets an arbitrary sense of difficulty while still feeling rewarding, bleh. I love crafting, but even I know my dedication towards it puts me in the minority.

[DrWho2010]

inb4 crafting delineations to fish for excellent procs to hq 100,000 control reqs is the new thing for leaderboards.

[CookiesNCreams]

inb4 crafting delineations to fish for excellent procs to hq 100,000 control reqs is the new thing for leaderboards.

Yeah, that’ll probably be the new meta in 5.2, but let’s see if they’re smart enough or not to nerf that lol.

[Callinon]

You’re wrong about that, it’s actually quite a lot of people, lol. Don’t make baseless assumptions about things you know nothing about. “0.01%”, apparently you work at square Enix now. :P

Do you? You're making the same claim.

Honestly.. real talk.. something I see you doing A LOT in all these threads where you're going on about this is speaking for a group of people.

Don't do that.

You have every right to speak for yourself and what you want. You have every right to present your own opinions and your own wishes. You do not have the right to speak for a group that hasn't elected you to do that, and I recall no election among The Hardcore™ naming you as leader.

This is a habit people tend to have when speaking on message boards like this. You want to sound like you have the backing of many people because it makes your argument sound better. This is known as argumentum ad populum and is a well-known logical fallacy. The solution boils down to this: speak for yourself, and only yourself unless you've actually been elected to speak for other people.

[CookiesNCreams]

Do you? You're making the same claim.

Honestly.. real talk.. something I see you doing A LOT in all these threads where you're going on about this is speaking for a group of people.

Don't do that.

You have every right to speak for yourself and what you want. You have every right to present your own opinions and your own wishes. You do not have the right to speak for a group that hasn't elected you to do that, and I recall no election among The Hardcore™ naming you as leader.

This is a habit people tend to have when speaking on message boards like this. You want to sound like you have the backing of many people because it makes your argument sound better. This is known as argumentum ad populum and is a well-known logical fallacy. The solution boils down to this: speak for yourself, and only yourself unless you've actually been elected to speak for other people.

Um, no, I won’t stop doing it. It’s because it’s safe to say my opinion is shared among other hardcore players in this game. Do I really need to show proof? Look at the videos (and comments) I posted in that YouTube link on the previous page. Also, since you really want to go there, about posts, your posts mostly seem to want to argue/debate with me over a topic we simply cannot and will not agree on. So agreeing to disagree is the best course of action. I have known many of hardcore crafters before 4.0 happened, and after 4.0, they somehow vanished?

Even have emails from these friends saying they quit because the crafting got too child-friendly and became a joke, so they played PSO2 or BDO. It’s really sad to see how a lot of these players do not post on the forums due to a cancelled subscription, or simply because they believe their voice will be instantly shut down by people such as yourself. That’s why I’m here. Doesn’t matter what you throw at me, I’m still going to bring this topic up until it’s resolved by Square somehow. Be it Ishgard or endgame recipes. Doesn’t matter, needs to be resolved. I know threads and posts like these anger folks like you I’m guessing, but, sorry, we need some content too.

So you can throw that “Don’t do that.” somewhere else.

boy, speaking as someone who has a computing science degree and has done some coding, what a pain in the ass to code

Oh cool. I’ve only done modest amounts of reverse engineering, such as PPC/Assembly and some JSON. No degree though, need more extra money to attend college again. :P Anyways, nobody has statistical data on subscriptions in FFXIV from 2016 - Now, unless you’re trying to tell me you somehow do. :P My point is, it’s disingenuous and quite pretentious to imply less than 1% of crafters quit because of crafting’s nerfs. It’s most definitely higher than that.

It’s simply because hardcore players are not very vocal on the forums whereas casual players are extremely vocal and post on a consistent basis. My mission is to do the same, and get this issue worked out. That’s all.

[Callinon]

Um, no, I won’t stop doing it. It’s because it’s safe to say my opinion is shared among other hardcore players in this game. Do I really need to show proof? Look at the videos (and comments) I posted in that YouTube link on the previous page. Also, since you really want to go there, about posts, your posts mostly seem to want to argue/debate with me over a topic we simply cannot and will not agree on. So agreeing to disagree is the best course of action. I have known many of hardcore crafters before 4.0 happened, and after 4.0, they somehow vanished?

And those people can speak for themselves too, just as I speak only for myself and do not attempt to invoke a silent population as you've done and are doing even now.

You have emails from friends who've quit because they didn't like how the crafting game developed. Ok. That's fair. So you have hard data that what? 6 people? 12? Have quit because they didn't like where crafting was going. You're trying to back your speech up with numbers you don't have... unless you'd like to present some data we can verify so that we know you actually represent a group of people?

Also I'm confused by one thing... PSO2? They didn't like FFXIV's crafting... so they went to PSO2? Because what?

Don't get me wrong there. I like PSO2 a lot. It's fun as hell, and I'm looking forward to the announced English release so I don't have to play it with a translation patch and 200ms ping. That'll be awesome. But the crafting in that game is dirt simple AND relies entirely on RNG to achieve any kind of useful result. Is that better? Because it sure didn't seem better to me. It's a side activity at best. And it's on strict cooldowns.