Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[Deathgiver]

If anyone is actually willing to discuss this without being negative and hateful, I’m all ears.

Let's be honest, you're not actually looking for discussion, you're looking for a sounding board and people to agree with you. I'd still like to hear what hardcore crafting looks like to you though. Anything I can think of to make crafting more "difficult" can still be done as well as a human hand crafting or better by a website app even if you can't macro.

[CookiesNCreams]

Let's be honest, you're not actually looking for discussion, you're looking for a sounding board and people to agree with you.

You can’t make it skill based. It can only be difficult by adding RNG because it’s based on math.

Oh, and you can disagree with someone without starting and/or taking part in a e-lynch mob and saying unnecessarily rude things. Be civil or be ignored. And I can clearly see you should be ignored, buh bye. You could have easily began this conversation without coming off like that. Not sure why you thought it was necessary to put that in there, when you know that’s not how this works.

[Deathgiver]

You can’t make it skill based. It can only be difficult by adding RNG because it’s based on math.

You can disagree with someone without starting a e-lynch mob and saying unnecessarily rude things. Be civil or be ignored. And I can clearly see you should be ignored, buh bye. You could have easily began this conversation without coming off like that. Not sure why you thought it was necessary to put that in there, when you know that’s not how this works.

I wasn't trying to be rude, but I have read almost every post in this thread. You've been treating this more like a blog post than a forum thread. You keep saying rng, but a trained neural network can figure out what to do with procs as well as any skilled crafter, so you're basically back at where we are now with macros only it takes longer per synth.

[CookiesNCreams]

I wasn't trying to be rude, but I have read almost every post in this thread. You've been treating this more like a blog post than a forum thread. You keep saying rng, but a trained neural network can figure out what to do with procs as well as any skilled crafter, so you're basically back at where we are now with macros only it takes longer per synth.

The more you treat this like a blog post, the more controversial it gets. It’s already controversial enough due to how many players hated 2.0 - 3.5’s crafting. :P

And it really depends on how the procs are implemented. Yeah, maybe other crafters can figure out a macro, but if it’s very thought intuitive like Yoshida says it will be, I have my doubts it can be macro’d.

We had macros in 2.0 when we were much more reliant on procs, they just had lots of different finishers depending on how many tricks of the trade you got during the initial progress and quality actions. If you break anything down into enough parts you can macro for any specific condition you need to meet.

True, you could technically macro Hasty Touch back then, but if you just blew through a macro, and failed, it would be pointless. It was a lot more optimal back then to manual craft. So yes, you’re right actually, about macros. What I’m trying to say is, it’ll probably be the same as it was back then. Where, you can macro it, but if you do, there’s still a a chance you will NQ a craft instead of HQ it. Where as when you manually craft, your chances of getting HQ are a bit higher. But you needed to be decent at crafting.

The removal of skill bloat will make it to where it’s a lot easier to be decent at crafting. Makes sense when you think about it.

POST LIMIT!!!!!!!

[Deathgiver]

The more you treat this like a blog post, the more controversial it gets. It’s already controversial enough due to how many players hated 2.0 - 3.5’s crafting. :P

And it really depends on how the procs are implemented. Yeah, maybe other crafters can figure out a macro, but if it’s very thought intuitive like Yoshida says it will be, I have my doubts it can be macro’d.

We had macros in 2.0 when we were much more reliant on procs, they just had lots of different finishers depending on how many tricks of the trade you got during the initial progress and quality actions. If you break anything down into enough parts you can macro for any specific condition you need to meet.

[Talam]

Haha, you can call it whatever you want to call it. Fact remains, it’s just common sense. If a grocery store begins to sell expired or bad goods to the public, and they eventually go out of business, common sense will tell you it’s because of the expired goods you purchased and didn’t like when you last went there. “Numbers” are irrelevant if you don’t have them. Which, you likely don’t, seeing as you are a regular person that is nowhere near this grocery store company’s CEO level. All you can do is make educated guesses.

Also, over the years, I would say around 30 - 32 per server? Back then, many people were pretty serious and hardcore about crafting, not counting just the competitive ones. On each server, my friends list was probably 180+, so, I’m sure a decent percentage of that were hardcore players. (And raiders too. Mostly because they wanted someone to craft them gear to be ready for a savage patch back then,)

By the way, your guesswork and scooby-doo interrogation-esque tone shouldn’t be regarded as authority either. The one who should be the authority, is the one who knows these hardcore players in question. And better yet, is one. You’re not going to change my mind. That’s just basic knowledge.

What guesswork? I haven't done any guesswork, nor have I tried to play myself off as an authority. The only person who's done that is you.

Also, your analogy isn't exactly great, because if the hypothetical grocery store in question is supposed to represent the crafting system, then the analogy would be that the store changed policy, making it more accessible to the public, so that it has a broader customer base and has a less niche market. It did mean, however, that it no longer stocks certain items that the more niche customers used to like.

I mean, just call the situation as it is: you lost a bunch of friends, it sucks, and you're hoping SE changes things with Ishgard restoration so that you can convince your friends to go play FFXIV with you again and do crafting stuff together. Don't pass yourself off as the voice of hardcore crafters and try to sound bigger than you really are. Your position would be much more sympathetic if you kept it at that rather than try to be the champion of the hardcore crafter.

As an aside, the term 'hardcore crafter' should be defined. I've maxed out all of my DoH and DoL every expansion, all of my DoH shared gear is penta-melded (I can macro facet gear from all NQ without needing to meld my main and off hand), I've had weeks where I spend a few hours everyday crafting, and I don't consider myself hardcore. I'm a pretty casual player all around.

[Jimmymagic]

Well the idea of hardcore crafting actually interest mostly because of time sync which is what this is really about, "How much time do you invest to be considered hardcore vs casual.

I do agree they need to make things more difficult in crafting and now its stupid easy to get anything hq pre max level/end game. However, RNG has nothing to with skill whatsoever. RNG is the equivalent IBS imo. I hate Rng and yet how else can the devs realistic add any kinda of challenge to endgame hardcore crafter who put in the time BiS whatever they want to make.

As for the other comments made, no one is attacking just speculating because that's all they can do.

Idea: once reaching max level and completed all job quests why not have competition set up based on a pvp style only crafting where you would have time limit, restricted skills for duration, Head to head for speed crafting with quick synth disabled. Maybe even do team sets with specialists and you have to craft on the spot with a group different parts. Crafting Raids(not sure how to implement) where you d have craft something large scale like a ship or house or something.....

I believe most can agree crafting isn't for everybody. But OP suggestions aren't terrible and not elitist at all to me.

[Maeka]

I believe most can agree crafting isn't for everybody. But OP suggestions aren't terrible and not elitist at all to me.

Her suggestions aren't elitist, but she sure pulls the "HOW DARE YOU FILTHY PLEB!" attitude with a number of people in this thread, to the point I've been tempted to report her for her hostile tone.

Anybody who disagrees with her is "hostile" to her, but yet she can look down her nose at us, and wave her epeen around, "LOOK AT ME I MAKE ONE BILLION GIL A MONTH AND I HAVE 10 RETAINERS AND I GOT MULTIPLE OMNICRAFTER ACCOUNTS, DO YOU HAVE THAT!?!??

That is extremely toxic and hostile behavior and it doesn't belong on the forums, nor in-game.

As for crafting "isn't for everybody" ... the only reason why it wasn't, was because of how absurd it got. After 5.1, however, crafting is much more accessible to many more players.

I, myself said that the suggestion of having a small niche hardcore crafting area is fine, but I didn't like her attitude. You want a few glams or some other kind of aesthetic that's hardcore as frick? Fine. Just like the special snowflakes can have their Ultimate Ballads and Savage Raids.

I'm fine with that. Those do not impact me until or unless I get some elitist looking down their nose at me like my $14.95 is worth less than theirs because I don't do said content myself.

EDIT: Also it is hilarious that SHE HERSELF admits that it is impossible to make Skill-Based crafting. She wants "hardcore" crafting, but yet admits that this "hardcore" crafting would not be hardcore because it takes skill. Basically, she just wants a grindfest so atrocious that 99% of the playerbase can't handle it, but yet she can, so she can stay at the top of the list because she would already be going into it with a massive stack of gil and maxed out crafters.

She wants to self-validate the time she spent getting all that gil and those crafters up. She took it upon herself to take on a ridiculous project that goes far above and beyond what Yoshi-P designed for the game and wants special content tailored just for her.

It's self-entitlement to 11.

EDIT2: I'll give you an example from my own point of view. I have 9,500 venture coins. I have this silly and stupid goal of maxing out at 65,000 venture coins. What if, I took to the forums, whining that I want special shinies that take 10,000 venture coins to buy, because I have nothing to spend venture coins on other than the 8 per day I spend on my retainers?

It would be just as stupid of an argument.

[CookiesNCreams]

Well the idea of hardcore crafting actually interest mostly because of time sync which is what this is really about, "How much time do you invest to be considered hardcore vs casual.

I do agree they need to make things more difficult in crafting and now its stupid easy to get anything hq pre max level/end game. However, RNG has nothing to with skill whatsoever. RNG is the equivalent IBS imo. I hate Rng and yet how else can the devs realistic add any kinda of challenge to endgame hardcore crafter who put in the time BiS whatever they want to make.

As for the other comments made, no one is attacking just speculating because that's all they can do.

Idea: once reaching max level and completed all job quests why not have competition set up based on a pvp style only crafting where you would have time limit, restricted skills for duration, Head to head for speed crafting with quick synth disabled. Maybe even do team sets with specialists and you have to craft on the spot with a group different parts. Crafting Raids(not sure how to implement) where you d have craft something large scale like a ship or house or something.....

I believe most can agree crafting isn't for everybody. But OP suggestions aren't terrible and not elitist at all to me.

Well said, thank you and I appreciate you for being civil and unbiased unlike two other posters on previous pages.

I agree, RNG sucks and all, but when you think about it, there seems to be no real way to make it truly “difficult” or skill based. There can only be fake difficulty = RNG. That’s all that can be done, honestly. I just can’t fathom why people honestly believe endgame-anything should be easy as pie. That is so backwards.

For the most part I agree with what you’re saying.

[Ksenia]

Well said, thank you and I appreciate you for being civil and unbiased unlike two other posters on previous pages.

I agree, RNG sucks and all, but when you think about it, there seems to be no real way to make it truly “difficult” or skill based. There can only be fake difficulty = RNG. That’s all that can be done, honestly. I just can’t fathom why people honestly believe endgame-anything should be easy as pie. That is so backwards.

For the most part I agree with what you’re saying.

The problem is, it was never hard. It was a gear check and as people accumulate more and more resources in stockpiles, meeting final gear check becomes easier.



SE can make this "hard" to the point of impossible but what they need to do is add a diminishing returns system to a side quest crafting system. Like Anima crafting or something. If they have a proper diminishing return, you never meet cap. They could add it to the rebuild system as well but it needs to be rewarded with cosmetic returns after a point or it becomes a barrier.