5.08 Patch - DPS still not balanced.

[Saito_]

It's actually the only objectivly debatable point. If certain comps were unable to complete content they'd require adjustments from the devs. Content must be able to be completed regardless of the party composition - that's the baseline. Every adjustment beyond that is (imho pointless) catering to community made problems.
Most people tend to take the route of least resistance, which is bad. But this is not a thing that can be solved(or even should be solved), as every change will just cause an uproar of those who feel disadvantaged, creating a pointless circle of changes and uproars.

[Akiudo]

It's actually the only objectivly debatable point. If certain comps were unable to complete content they'd require adjustments from the devs. Content must be able to be completed regardless of the party composition - that's the baseline. Every adjustment beyond that is (imho pointless) catering to community made problems.
Most people tend to take the route of least resistance, which is bad. But this is not a thing that can be solved(or even should be solved), as every change will just cause an uproar of those who feel disadvantaged, creating a pointless circle of changes and uproars.

if 2 groups do a fight, but one group is mnk/drg/blm/blm (or with a ton of goodwill a bard for the oh so great 1% buff) while the other is sam/rdm/brd/dnc do you have any idea how much harder group 2 has to work for the same result? obviously i'm painting an extreme here, but this coump would literally have to do all 70% parses to deal the same damage as the other combo at 30%. Mind you the weaker group would have an even harder time to reach a high parse compared to the stronger group as a lot of their damage comes from their raid contribution, which suffers do to all the weak classes being stacked. Also while their obviously allways will be someone that "feels" disadvantaged the point about someone feeling disadvantaged does not mean or even imply that someone may not be disadvantaged for real.

If i hand you+another person a job to do, you i tell "go and do your best" him i hand 10.000 bucks and a list of people he can contact for help than you sure as hell will cry foul even if what i demand from you is technically doable if you put in enough effort, its not about jobs "feeling" disadvantaged but about having cold hard numbers that show that in fact they are at an disadvantage, and not one so small just being 5% better can overcome it.

[ForteNightshade]

It's actually the only objectivly debatable point. If certain comps were unable to complete content they'd require adjustments from the devs. Content must be able to be completed regardless of the party composition - that's the baseline. Every adjustment beyond that is (imho pointless) catering to community made problems.
Most people tend to take the route of least resistance, which is bad. But this is not a thing that can be solved(or even should be solved), as every change will just cause an uproar of those who feel disadvantaged, creating a pointless circle of changes and uproars.

... this is a seriously flawed perspective. Why bother balancing jobs period then? Who cares if Monk gets buffed come 5.1. After all, the only thing that matters is the weakest job can still clear. It doesn't matter that by switching from Red Mage to Black Mage, you make it far easier on your healers because you're more likely to skip mechanics. And it doesn't matter that even if you're one of the best Red Mages in the game, a slightly above Black Mage still does better than you.

Blaming it on the community is silly, especially when it's actually more beneficial to take two Black Mages than any of the Range.

[Saito_]

... this is a seriously flawed perspective. Why bother balancing jobs period then? Who cares if Monk gets buffed come 5.1. After all, the only thing that matters is the weakest job can still clear. It doesn't matter that by switching from Red Mage to Black Mage, you make it far easier on your healers because you're more likely to skip mechanics. And it doesn't matter that even if you're one of the best Red Mages in the game, a slightly above Black Mage still does better than you.

Blaming it on the community is silly, especially when it's actually more beneficial to take two Black Mages than any of the Range.

There is no point in balancing any further then necessary to enable all possible class combinations to clear current end game content when played at above Joe average level. There is no issue with job a perfoming better than job b that's the nature of diversity. It's those fault who lock out others bc they follow the path of least resisance. Nothing the devs can do will ever change that, there will always be someone complaining/being locked out. Albeit comps that are able to skip mechanics in current content shouldn't exist.

[CKNovel]

There is no point in balancing any further then necessary to enable all possible class combinations to clear current end game content when played at above Joe average level. There is no issue with job a perfoming better than job b that's the nature of diversity. It's those fault who lock out others bc they follow the path of least resisance. Nothing the devs can do will ever change that, there will always be someone complaining/being locked out. Albeit comps that are able to skip mechanics in current content shouldn't exist.

There is no point giving a disabled kid a wheelchair or prothese because the kid can crawl. Also let's make the kid participate in a race with others able to win simply by walking.

This is the current state of DPS and you think it's normal. The example is flawed as jobs is a choice and it's a bit extreme.
But why do we need to push harder because we love a job that is underwhelming and not the DPS Pantheon?

Yes it's normal to have DPS disparities as means of support exist such as Tactician, Raising or Battle voice. Or """Mobility""" when bosses possess a hitbox large as half the arena or when monk has no positionnal 80% of his rotation. But not 10% difference.

Ranged, for example, are taxed the same way that they were in Stormblood. Do you remember Stormblood? Ranged in Stormblood had utilities much more interesting such as Dismantle, the BRD 2% Crit passive, palisade that was usefull on very few occasions but usefull. But the top of the cake was Refresh, it allowed a Healer to cast more over a fight and as such, to freely DPS.

In normal content/EX, DPS disparity is not important as the DPS requirement is very low. I often farm as a MCH, but if I was a BLM main every EX farm would go much faster. Oh wait, skip Soar.
In savage/ultimate content, DPS disparity is much more important. I don't know what your experience is in savage but believe me that if we had the DPS to skip the Black Smokes from E3S we would have cleared the content a week earlier, which is one extra week of loot.

[ForteNightshade]

There is no point in balancing any further then necessary to enable all possible class combinations to clear current end game content when played at above Joe average level. There is no issue with job a perfoming better than job b that's the nature of diversity. It's those fault who lock out others bc they follow the path of least resisance. Nothing the devs can do will ever change that, there will always be someone complaining/being locked out. Albeit comps that are able to skip mechanics in current content shouldn't exist.

Actually, there is. The devs can balance the jobs so their overall contributions are close enough no one cares. You keep insisting on blaming the community yet if there will always be someone locked out. Why isn't Warrior? It is undeniably the weakest tank yet you will never see anyone hard lock PLD/GNB which has become the de facto "meta". Why? Because the difference between all four is negligible. For argument sake, lets assume the highest rDPS possible is 17,000—which is achievable on Black Mage and Samurai, or thereabouts at least. Now lets assume the lowest—likely Dancer—brought somewhere around 16,500. Congratulations. No one cares what job you play anymore because they're all close enough it wouldn't matter. Now obviously this are just random figures I pulled but it helps illustrate the point.

You only see jobs being locked out when there exists a sizable imbalance. It's incredibly disingenuous to fault the community when, pragmatically speaking, you will have an easier time if you lock out certain jobs. What incentive does a random PF group have to bring Red Mage over Black Mage when the latter can outright die and still contribute more damage? If the only objective is to clear and nothing else. Then it stands to reason you want whatever advantages you can have to help achieve that. Taking Dragoon, Monk and two Black Mages (or even a Range despite them being weaker) makes it far easier than if you ran Samurai, Bard, Red Mage and Summoner. The latter is diversity for diversity's sake. There's no reason to take that comp beyond being nice because it's widely inferior to the one boasting the big three.

None of this touches on the fact it's a demoralizing feeling to know your preferred job brings such low damage relative to its counterpart that you switching, even if you were weaker on said job, would help your team more. A friend of mine is more than a little frustrated that all his efforts to reach 99% on Red Mage can be outdone by a slightly above average Black Mage. The same can be said for another friend who feels pretty crappy when I die and still out-DPS her (or almost) simply because I play Dragoon and she plays Dancer. In fact, just to emphasise how absurd the discrepancy is. I died two weeks ago in E3S and got a 9%. She didn't and got 94%. There was a difference of 400 rDPS between us. And I had less gear than her.

Is this ridiculous imbalance really a hill you want to die on?

[AikenDrum]

Content must be able to be completed regardless of the party composition - that's the baseline. Every adjustment beyond that is (imho pointless) catering to community made problems.

Bottom 7 jobs at 100% in titan do 71/76k dps, meaning you can have one dps job doing maximum of 5k dps and your baseline would be met. Noone would be insane enough to take that job into content though.