Thread: 5.08 Patch - DPS still not balanced.

Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

I shall reiterate: If you're not beating enrage, it's because you're failing mechanics and/or failing to adapt with the rest of the team. The meters aren't going to suddenly change an enrage wipe to a clear if your performance stays the same, all it does is show people how you're failing. What each person does with that information is up to them.

But thats just frankly not always true. Ive seen runs of e3 this round with me playing as a NIN in a party with SMN DNC SAM where there wasnt a single death or vulnerability that still hit enrage. Why? Cause mechanics were done perfectly but we had 1 player you literally was performing at 5th percentile and that was dropping us about 1.5k dps.

This was pre sam and nin buff. Point being tho that saying just doing mechanics perfectly is enough to clear a fight is just false. One bad apple that doesnt know their class well enough. Or one healer that refuses to dps much can very much result in a near impossible clear for the other party members if they are playing weaker classes.

People asking for raises to be locked out of summoner or red mage are being silly and hopefully never happen.

Why you ask?

While balance still needs to be worked on and were not there yet, balance should not be based off the hard core player (as some folks have said before). That being said do you know how much "casual content" will be harder on pug groups if you take away summoner and red mage abilities away. The twenty four man raids alone are testament enough to that.

That also doesn't mean I believe they shouldn't be taxed for their utility, but being 1500 behind black mage isn't what I think is fair.

Originally Posted by Vendalwind

But thats just frankly not always true. Ive seen runs of e3 this round with me playing as a NIN in a party with SMN DNC SAM where there wasnt a single death or vulnerability that still hit enrage. Why? Cause mechanics were done perfectly but we had 1 player you literally was performing at 5th percentile and that was dropping us about 1.5k dps.

This was pre sam and nin buff. Point being tho that saying just doing mechanics perfectly is enough to clear a fight is just false. One bad apple that doesnt know their class well enough. Or one healer that refuses to dps much can very much result in a near impossible clear for the other party members if they are playing weaker classes.

True enough, but my point is that this isn’t the parser’s fault.

My static struggled with the same exact thing in E4S, though we used the info to better ourselves and eventually cleared a week later. (And our dancer switched to Monk, but that goes back to the original class balance debate.)

Yoship said in the PLL that monk is doing more damage than samurai who is pure job and he is sorry or something like that monk is never intended to do this high damage...

Originally Posted by lulunami

What does it mean to be balanced? Does balanced mean every job does the same damage? Maybe they want Monk and Black Mage to be the strongest DPS job by far?

In the older expansions, you are better off bringing another Bard or ranged DPS instead of Black Mage or Monk. Only the development team knows how much inequity they want in the game.

Certain jobs may be weaker than other jobs, but the severity of the gap is up to the developers. The gap between Dancer and Black Mage right now, for example, is relatively minor compared to a lot of class based games.

Might as well start downgrading jobs to limited status and restricting them from high end content entirely at that point if you're just willing to accept massive imbalances among DPS.

Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

You act like monk is the only class with "mechanical issues."

Find where I have said, ever, that Monk is the only job with issues. I only have so many posts on these forums, so it shouldn't take you very long to check.

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Any job becomes easier the more you play it—which is why we shouldn’t say “X job is harder/more complex to play, so it should deal more damage”. Jobs that are more complex should feel more rewarding—but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they should be top damage dealers, and the “easy jobs” stay at the bottom.

If I am honest, I do feel that simpler jobs should absolutely be pulling numbers at the bottom of the heap. They also shouldn't be pulling in 1k-1.5k less dps than other jobs for their trouble when played well. Otherwise, what actually IS the reward for playing a more complex DPS? The satisfaction/endorphin rush you get for saying you main X on the official forums? Personal satisfaction means precisely nothing in a setting where people are excluding jobs for not being able to perform even at that wonderful 95+.

Where did I say that RDM should be used as an excuse to not address SMN?

I never said that you did, but I was addressing your concern that if we "fixed" SMN, then RDM would be dead, which to me sounds like an excuse to leave a job as is. The answer shouldn't be "fix SMNs issues and leave RDM dead", it's "fix SMN issues AND also address the severe disparity is RDMs performance across the board." These things are mutually exclusive only to people who want them to be in order to make a (bad) point.

It sucks to wait for fixes. They'll happen.

you seem opposed to balancing around the 95+ percentiles.

I'm opposed strongly to treating a fraction of the player-base as the end-all-be-all opinion on what balance should be, since apparently their focus so narrow, the numbers alone are enough to justify ignoring mechanical issues with Jobs they have beef with.

Where was I talking about nerfs?

The part where you say "utility" is why Monk's shouldn't be competing with SAM or BLM for damage could be construed as a call for nerfs. Correct me if I'm wrong!

Several jobs have issues right now

See my reply to Katie. I'm very well aware that pretty much every DPS in the game has weird mechanical issues of one sort or another. Explain how any of that proves that we can't address the DPS disparities with some jobs unless we nerf others.

I wish they'd add a new healer role that was an oGCD instant cast raise that costs 0 MP. I know that might sound a little bit ridiculous, but I think it would solve a few issues. I'm definitely someone who thinks raise should be removed from casters. It's not an interesting utility in any way shape or form. I understand why people don't want it removed. It puts less burden on healers, especially if they both wipe, but I dislike the expectation that one of the DPS classes should be expected to raise people.