Lack of End Game Content

[LadyKairi]

Casuals didn't change the game,

factually wrong. I've been playing since ARR and, yes, casuals did change the game. I remember when extreme primals were actually difficult. People still have nightmares of Titan extreme. We didn't always have story modes for high end raids. Shoot they even lowered the difficulty of savage raids for casual players (Creator), because they were "too hard". How about the hard mode dungeons that were nerfed because they were "too hard". The Steps of faith faced the nerf hammer, even though it was still clearable in its original form. Devs trying to bring the skill ceiling down rather than raising the skill floor. My boyfriend would even bring up when strength tank was around. People complained because you had people who didnt know how to play their jobs trying to copy those who would build strength rather than vitality and the bad tanks were harder to heal. So lets just get rid of the ability to do it (I was never a tank person so this is just his gripe and why he refuses to play XIV anymore).

I remember things being more difficult than they are now. It is what got me to make xiv my home. While I still love the game and aspects of it that aren't raid related, it's become something I don't quite recognize. Mostly everything has become so face roll its depressing. And then the content that I do enjoy because it gives me a challenge... Savage saw a lowering in difficulty to entice casuals, and then you have people crying for even ultimate to be nerfed or be unsynced so they don't have to actually work to get the rewards. I am shocked they are (so far) letting Ultimate be left alone. You are lying to yourself if you think the casuals didn't change this game. I remember, and others remember.

We are not asking for the whole game to be changed into this raid centered thing. We just want a slight addition to our already tiny piece of pie. And you are delusional if you think people who are screaming "NO! YOU CANT HAVE MORE. ITS ALL MINE" When we are starving for something more while they're drowning in more content than they know what to do with (and freaking brag about it) aren't selfish. It is unbelievably selfish. My parents taught me that "sharing is caring", and I have not cared if I've had to give in order for someone unfortunate to have something. If the roles were reversed, I would totally let casuals have their content, as more people being happy makes more money for SE, and in turn more funds going back into the game. This is supposed to be a "theme park MMO", but why should it be called that when groups like the raiders have so little. We cant even enjoy our content, because now casuals have gotten the difficulty of even savage reduced for them. This is why people are done with the tiers so fast. Why they don't last as long as they should. Why we are begging for scraps at this point.

The game doesn't need to be catered to casuals or accessible by everyone in every aspect of the game. That's the whole thing about theme park mmos. Something for everyone, yet casuals seem to get their hand on everything and get it altered to their liking, rather than let groups enjoy their content. Then when people like us beg for something more, we get screamed at and told to screw off. Make us feel like we are not welcome at all, and how DARE we criticize their perfect game, even though things were different than they are now. Most of us sat quietly as the game grew progressively easier and easier.


No I don't want to take more time away from the game. I hardly get play time as it stands. No I don't want to play other games. My FC is here. My friends are here. I'm an officer in my little community, and I can't just abandon them when they're in need. I have roots here established a long time ago. And I just can't afford to buy different games even if I wanted to. No, raids aren't the only content I do in game. They are just the content I love the most and tend to spend my limited time doing, as I have exhausted most content while everything was relevant and while I had the time to blow. Now I'm either helping FC members or doing raids (or slowly trying to level dancer while waiting for savage).

I'm really not trying to sound angry or spiteful or negative, but it is just so frustrating. We have put up with the game getting progressively easier as time went by, because we acknowledged that we are the minority and it would better the game as a whole in order to grow. And then to politely as for something ever so small after all these years only to get told "get out my game" essentially... I just can't with the selfishness you guys. How is that even remotely fair?

And just because the game grew as much as it has and is still successful, does not mean it couldn't stand to improve in different ways.

[Tint]

We are not asking for the whole game to be changed into this raid centered thing. We just want a slight addition to our already tiny piece of pie. And you are delusional if you think people who are screaming "NO! YOU CANT HAVE MORE. ITS ALL MINE" When we are starving for something more while they're drowning in more content than they know what to do with (and freaking brag about it) aren't selfish. It is unbelievably selfish.

Please tell me in wich endgame PvE content I am drowning.

Expert roulette, Normal Mode Raid aaaaaaand..?

Sure I can grind fate ranking, trust level, collect minions and mounts... but so can you raiders and it's just filler while I am waiting for the relic weapon. Especially since most of that stuff is just tied to other content. It's not content wich was created so casuals have something to do at endgame...

[LadyKairi]

Hardcores have savage raid, ultimate raid and extreme trials. I would say they have the deep dungeon too, actually the bigger part of heavon on high, but there is no gear progression so it doesn't count when I understood this discussion correct.

If the primals were on the same page as, say, Titan extreme, in his glory days I would agree with you, but no. The extreme primals we have are still very easy and don't even need a day to complete them. I would not say they are for the "hardcores" at all.

[Hawklaser]

Please tell me in wich endgame PvE content I am drowning.

Expert roulette, Normal Mode Raid aaaaaaand..?

Sure I can grind fate ranking, trust level, collect minions and mounts... but so can you raiders and it's just filler while I am waiting for the relic weapon. Especially since most of that stuff is just tied to other content. It's not content wich was created so casuals have something to do at endgame...

That filler stuff you mentioned? That is the content you are drowning in. As that is what those of us that ask for a lil more, potentially slightly more challenging endgame content to do keep getting told to go do. It doesn't need to all be Savage and Ultimate tier, but we also don't need 5 leveling dungeons for every expansion either.

[LadyKairi]

That filler stuff you mentioned? That is the content you are drowning in. As that is what those of us that ask for a lil more, potentially slightly more challenging endgame content to do keep getting told to go do. It doesn't need to all be Savage and Ultimate tier, but we also don't need 5 leveling dungeons for every expansion either.

^^^^^ this ^^^^^

You guys have everything that isn't Savage and Ultimate. I would even argue you could do savage, since they lowered the difficulty of them to be more "accessible" to you... Otherwise everything else is made with the casuals in mind so you are able to complete them.

[mario710]

factually wrong.

Someone who speaks in absolute objectivity. You are my type.

Marry me.

[Tint]

[...] but we also don't need 5 leveling dungeons for every expansion either.

Okay, I am a bit impressed that you actually found something wich can be thinned out a bit o.ô; I mean the people who like to level alt jobs will not be thaat happy I guess, but they will survive it.

So less leveling dungeons? And maybe less Fates? Is that the content wich should be reduced so we can have more endgame stuff? Maybe even less overworld maps in general? I would like to see examples of stuff wich can be pruned in order to add more other stuff, because "you have so much" is a bit vague, especially when most of it is just old or repurposed content.

[linay]

So less leveling dungeons?

NO! They're the best way to level! I wish deep dungeon would not give exp so people would spend more time in leveling dungeons.

[Zabuza]

I already admitted the game has been made easier but that's again as I pointed out because SE wants a large amount of players to enjoy their game, locking them out of several parts of it doesn't help that goal, however the content spread has always been the same, in fact raiders have more now then the "glory days" of ARR, also your argument was lacking of end game content now that's not finding purchase its now about the difficulty overall.
This games goal is to get as many people in and enjoying content as they can so they get as many people paying as they can, they are doing a good job at this, you've given no reason other than "I want" that would convince them to change.
The game isn't dying, it's growing, the game isn't stale for the majority, the games practicability is a strength for the majority and Yoshi and the team are still open to trying new challenging content when they can, but not at the cost of everyone else.

If you want to change your argument to the game getting easier which has nothing to do with endgame content, that's fine but it kind of shows the weakness of the former argument if its so easily abandoned, but my argument would be they've simply made a greater divide between casuals and hardcore, locking story away was a poor move they admitted and so normal mode was added, raiders lost nothing from that it was simply an addition. However during Stoomrblood we were told the reason a dungeon was lost was so they could add new content so lets examine that.

Both parties lost a dungeon, raiders gained Ultimate, a piece of content next to no casuals will ever experience outside of twitch/youtube while the Casuals (this is debatable given its nature but for the sake of argument we'll say they gained it) gained Eukrea.
However, the raiders would have no issue going into Eukrea for their relic or because they enjoyed it, then there's BA another thing more geared towards raiders add to that the fact from this topic most raiders don't consider running ex dungeons as good content and during Stormblood raiders lost arguably nothing of value and gained 2 and a half things of value VS casuals who lost one thing of value and gained half a thing of value depending on where you stand some would feel nothing of value.

So all last expansion the raiders actually made out better than the casuals on the new content front in addition to all the usual content this is why to a lot of them it just feels like you're trying to change the game into something its not, you can argue the games skill level has been lowered but it's amount of high end game content has grown not shrunk. You use ARR coil not having a normal mode but you also didn't have ultimate back then or BA and as for losing savage exclusive bosses that wasn't what Yoshi said or why he said it, it was actually raiders who didn't like having to get past a "door boss" to get to the actual boss, just like it was raiders who didn't like running through trash to get to the challenging boss, the casuals aren't taking your savage boss, the devs are trying to answer a criticisms raiders levelled at them.

This however is all an aside to the fact your content amount has gone up, not down in a game that never offered much endgame content to begin with, that is something the casuals didn't change because it's always been that way, which loops back to my previous point.
You can't come into a place that's 90% one way, and expect the people who are there for the 90% who enjoy the game and love that 90% and tell them you don't like that 90% and they should give you some of their 90% because you only care about that 10% they don't and expect them to be OK with that. Especially when there are games that they avoid because they are like that and you could play those, if you want to stay with them they don't care, they only care because you're trying to change what they enjoy and no moving of the goal posts onto difficulty will change the fact that raiders have more now than they did during ARR, not less.
So casuals haven't changed the game and you're trying to change it back, you're just trying to change the game.

So, if it takes you longer to do content because of increased difficulty, that keeps you occupied for more time than if it is easier. Since Savage has been made easier, it now gets completed quicker, which means I unsub quicker. I have already explained in the previous pages how making more raiding content would attract more people. This game has already been changed into something else when the casuals protested to make everything braindead easy. CASUALS changed the difficulty which I would love to have changed back. In all this time since the game has been out, raiders have barely gained anything quantitywise, and lost a lot difficultywise. And you wanna cite just last expansion, do you really wanna make a comparison as to what casuals have gained since this game started, vs raiders? Keep in mind the list below is just off the top of my head, and not me taking the time to officially investigate and find out everything casuals have truly gained.

Casuals: Gold Saucer and all the mini games that come with it.
Lord of Verminion.
Glamour.
New races.
New hairstyles/colors.
New faces.
Houses and everything that comes with having one.
Gardening.
New crafting recipes/levels.
New achievements to chase in the achievement list.
New FATEs.
New emotes.
Mounts/Minions.
Hunts.
Deep Dungeon/HoH.
Retainer Ventures.
Squadrons.
Trust System.
Expeditions.

Raiders: Savage given an extra boss/checkpoint in the last fight.
Ultimate.

Before you say it as well, the above stuff in the casual category does NOT count as something added for raiders just because on a case by case basis, they may do one or a couple of those things. We're talking about difficult battle content.

[linay]

Except those things that casuals get can and are also used by raiders.

We're talking about difficult battle content.

So you want to talk difficult battle content and then compare that to casuals getting new hairstyles? If raiders use those new hairstyles as well, then it's irrelevant that casuals can get them.