Lack of End Game Content

[SaberMaxwell]

What do you mean by sustainable:

• Do you refer to the always same iteration of the release cycle, and the fact that game is still running while using said release cycle?
• Do you refer to that only a fraction of people even bother with endgame activities and its sustainable this way, as even if all of them left the game would still be running?

This endgame doesn't really "work" for anyone seeking challenging content, or challenging content outside of Ex/savage:

• 3 lvl 80 dungeons, 3 trials up to lvl 80, Ex trials, 1 raid, Savage raid - that's it until the next major release; and if you're like me who rather has challenging group, but not raid content you can leave the minute you've done all 3 dungeons, as there is just nothing left
• There are only so many repetitions you're doing of the current endgame content until you either don't play your lvl 80 anymore and focus on other activities, or you unsub until the next major patch

Theme-park MMORPGs are like a buffet, as you should have food for your different customer groups/personas, but currently the "wants challenging content" group only has a tiny selection of food it can eat - and if I were the host of said buffet I'd make sure that even that particular group has enough variety to chose from.

I refer to the fact that despite being told for almost six years now that this endgame is stale and FFXIV needs to diversify or it will die...maybe I stopped believing that entirely by now.

It could stand to diversify. Incidentally how does the proposed addition of two extra Savage fights affect the difficulty you're after?

[SaberMaxwell]

I'm not saying that the game is perfect; it could improve for sure. I also admit bias in liking the current Savage+ model for endgame, where BiS becomes a means to an end, that end being the hardest fights in the game.

I am saying that I'm numb to the rhetoric of "if this game doesn't change it's gonna die!" I've been there. I've thought that. But here we are still, six years on.

[KageTokage]

While I get a huge rush out of clearing a savage tier for the first time, it also really lowers my drive to play the game, even as someone who spends ample time doing random side content like hunts and fishing.

[Niyuka]

There have been MMOs, and timespans within those MMOs, where the endgame content was enough for 99% of the players in terms of challenge, content and/or casual busywork. WoW BC era before they invented the silly marks for free loot was a time when there was always aspirational content for the vast majority of players ,regardless of their level of hardcore-ness. There were guilds who were focused on the 10-man content (Karazhan and Zul Aman later), there was gear progression throughout the ENTIRE raid content, not invalidated every few weeks by releasing easy-to-acquire BIS stuff for everyone, and there were a lot of side activities.

FFXIVs designer team is so terribly afraid of a single bad player having to MAYBE learn how to play in order to clear content that MIGHT not be auto-complete on first ID, its ridiculous (and entertaining at the same time). I have never seen a dev team so worried about the lowest 2%, and it hurts the game a lot by making all content minus a handful of things utterly laughably easy, and breeds a playerbase that is unwilling, unable, incapable of learning and feels outraged (as can be seen in this thread) by the mere notion of something being beyond their immediate ability to achieve.

[xbahax92]

FFXIVs designer team is so terribly afraid of a single bad player having to MAYBE learn how to play in order to clear content that MIGHT not be auto-complete on first ID, its ridiculous (and entertaining at the same time). I have never seen a dev team so worried about the lowest 2%, and it hurts the game a lot by making all content minus a handful of things utterly laughably easy, and breeds a playerbase that is unwilling, unable, incapable of learning and feels outraged (as can be seen in this thread) by the mere notion of something being beyond their immediate ability to achieve.

Its all about getting subs on and off. They're not even trying to keep their veteran players. Even Yoshida's statement "You should go play other games time to time" is only proving they're not really after long-term subscribers. All they want is to keep even the most casuals attracted to the game, until where they quit and come back at a later time.
How many times did I read "I quit this game at first, but now I gave it a second chance, I love it!!". Its all about "Lets make things easier" so even the dumbest person can deal DPS. Im worried about Ninja, I liked the ninjutsu and mudra combinations... I am aware its clunky with GCD but still...

[RareItems]

Preatorium and The Labyrinth of the Ancients everyday is the real endgame xD.

Savage Eden/Ex Trials are just optional content like Chocobo Racing or Mahjong designed to please a small percent of the total playerbase.

[Arngrim_Greyashe]

So, basically someone has to clear absolutely everything before they're allowed to voice a desire to want more endgame content, in your eyes. Cool. From now on, people who have glamour ideas are no longer able to suggest them unless they have every single piece of gear in their inventory, every glamour set. People who want more hunts are no longer allowed to ask for them unless they have all the hunt mounts. People who want to suggest items for housing are no longer allowed to suggest these things unless they have every single type of furniture item. People who have ideas for mounts or minions are no longer allowed to want more mounts and minions unless they have collected every single type of mount or minion. People who want a job added into the game are no longer allowed to ask for it unless they have leveled every single job to 80. I'm guessing if we go by those criteria, noone will be allowed to suggest anything in this forum ever again. But keep applying those standards to only endgame content, please.

Just out of curiosity, what will your argument be if I clear the 5.1 Ultimate and still feel the same way? Guessing you will tell me, 'ya but now you need to go back and clear Ultimate Coil or UwU,' correct?

You're quite literally arguing that you want more challenging endgame content but then don't do it when it arrives. What else is there supposed to be?

[Zabuza]

You're quite literally arguing that you want more challenging endgame content but then don't do it when it arrives. What else is there supposed to be?

Really? Weird, I seem to be doing Savage at the moment. It's cool, I guess no one can suggest anything anymore. No more suggestions for anything else unless someone has done absolutely every single thing that someone can do in that area of the game. I better not see any more ideas for glamour, housing items, mounts, minions, or anything unless someone has 100% of the items or achievements in that area.

[SaberMaxwell]

Just out of curiosity, what will your argument be if I clear the 5.1 Ultimate and still feel the same way? Guessing you will tell me, 'ya but now you need to go back and clear Ultimate Coil or UwU,' correct?

I mean, why don't you go do that? They both not only still exist, but both still far outclass Savage in difficulty, reward longevity, and prestige. They're excellent goals for any raider looking to cut their teeth on some difficult content. You don't even need vit melds to handle them anymore, so you can go into them with basically any gear above their iLv and be fine. The average prog time for either Ultimate is 150 hours.

[Arngrim_Greyashe]

Really? Weird, I seem to be doing Savage at the moment. It's cool, I guess no one can suggest anything anymore. No more suggestions for anything else unless someone has done absolutely every single thing that someone can do in that area of the game. I better not see any more ideas for glamour, housing items, mounts, minions, or anything unless someone has 100% of the items or achievements in that area.

Your argument doesn't hold water. You're arguing with people, saying how they destroyed the game, when in reality the hardcore endgame content is there. If you're going through savage, great! You know what's harder than that? Ultimate. You should check that out. If they don't appeal to you, that's fine and you're perfectly fine asking for more. However, you're acting like a child throwing a temper tantrum because you wanted ninja turtles and not x men. So you can voice your wants with respect or expect to get backlash. That's how it goes. The old adage, treat others how you want to be treated, fits here.