Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Mavrias]

The bolded line in your response is simply not true. The kick system is very often abused and used for harassment purposes. There are hundreds and thousands of valid reports and punishments made for people unreasonably kicking someone from a group (especially if the non-kicked members are pre-made).

Yes, you are correct that kicking someone =/= harassment... necessarily. But it can be, and often is.

The situation outlined by the OP is not one in which the tank was being unreasonable, and there was no valid reason to kick the tank. And frankly, that is the entire point of this thread. Not whether there are or are not situations where kicking is acceptable (that's quite obvious that there are).


There is a such thing as expectations being objectively too high. And this is one of those. It's not like the tank was losing threat constantly or dying constantly or afking. All he was doing is going a tiny bit slower than he possibly could have (large group pulling actually doesn't shave that much time off your dungeon run, btw).

When you see the "there is someone who hasn't done this dungeon before" message pop up, and it's the tank, do you immediately kick them? If not, that right there is a reasonable example of an inexperienced tank at level 70.

and i am saying that the reason given by the people in OP's discord was a valid one. they did not want to play with that tank, so they replaced him when they confirmed that said tank was not going to at least try to big pull. none of that was harassment.

what? being new is not grounds for being kicked and never did i say that. if you are new to content and are using that as an excuse to not work with your group or do your best i personally dont agree with it, but again that is up to the party.

in this specific example, you can be new to a dungeon and still make an attempt to big pull.

[Kaedan]

and i am saying that the reason given by the people in OP's discord was a valid one. they did not want to play with that tank, so they replaced him when they confirmed that said tank was not going to at least try to big pull. none of that was harassment.

Apparently we're simply not going to agree on this point. I think a group who would kick a tank for pulling 1 group at a time rather than 2-3 is petty, immature, irrational, and lacks even the basic modicum of patience and understanding. And since the tank wasn't doing anything against the rules and was playing perfectly within the bounds of acceptable behavior in the dungeon, kicking him was flat out harassment.

Like I said, he wasn't losing threat or constantly dying or making mistakes that caused significant wastes of time. In fact, pulling 1 group at a time rather than 2-3 would have only cost the group about 2-5 minutes of playtime (yes, that's the average time saved by large group pulling).

^^ I can chain pull most dungeons in under 25m depending on the group setup, I find AoEing takes longer, more wipes, more "I'm out of TP/MP", also its boring AF. But I'm just a weird dude who likes to have fun playing video games, not play em like I'm a salesman working on 100% commission.

That's another good point. Single group chain pulling can be just as fast as large group pulling as well. From experience, I've found that single pulling certain groups in The Burn actually makes the run go faster than wall pulling.

[OcieKo]

Apparently we're simply not going to agree on this point. I think a group who would kick a tank for pulling 1 group at a time rather than 2-3 is petty, immature, irrational, and lacks even the basic modicum of patience and understanding. And since the tank wasn't doing anything against the rules and was playing perfectly within the bounds of acceptable behavior in the dungeon, kicking him was flat out harassment.

Like I said, he wasn't losing threat or constantly dying or making mistakes that caused significant wastes of time. In fact, pulling 1 group at a time rather than 2-3 would have only cost the group about 2-5 minutes of playtime (yes, that's the average time saved by large group pulling).

^^ I can chain pull most dungeons in under 25m depending on the group setup, I find AoEing takes longer, more wipes, more "I'm out of TP/MP", also its boring AF. But I'm just a weird dude who likes to have fun playing video games, not play em like I'm a salesman working on 100% commission.

Was the tank new and inexperienced in OP's case?
They didn't elaborate on that.

But even if the tank was new, they didn't just immediately kick them. They ask them to do larger pulls and ensured them that it would be fine if it wouldn't go smoothly, but the tank didn't even bother to try. We didn't know how the tank actually responded when asked.

Only thing known about tank response was refusal to do larger pulls, no context seems to have been given about the tanks, skill level, gear, game experience, new status etc. And context of groups thoughts can be considered to be anywhere between polite and downright rude/demeaning with the goal of "do big pulls anyways" being the only definitive thing, as no further details were given other than "context missing".

[Mavrias]

Apparently we're simply not going to agree on this point. I think a group who would kick a tank for pulling 1 group at a time rather than 2-3 is petty, immature, irrational, and lacks even the basic modicum of patience and understanding. And since the tank wasn't doing anything against the rules and was playing perfectly within the bounds of acceptable behavior in the dungeon, kicking him was flat out harassment.

Like I said, he wasn't losing threat or constantly dying or making mistakes that caused significant wastes of time. In fact, pulling 1 group at a time rather than 2-3 would have only cost the group about 2-5 minutes of playtime (yes, that's the average time saved by large group pulling).



That's another good point. Single group chain pulling can be just as fast as large group pulling as well. From experience, I've found that single pulling certain groups in The Burn actually makes the run go faster than wall pulling.

i'm aware of the time difference between big and small pulls, you really dont have to keep saying it.

if theyre as terrible as you say then the tank should count their blessings that they were removed from the group and can queue immediately to a potentially more receptive party with zero penalty, no?

again, not liking something doesnt mean you were harassed. they were not sworn at, belittled, trolled, called slurs, stalked, or anything else in that realm as far as OP tells it.

we dont have to agree. thats the beauty of having a discussion about video games. it costs us nothing to disagree.