Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Granyala]

As a tank main i do small pulls only, and ill tell you why. I generally only run with my partner who is a healer main, I know he's easily stressed an can be distracted because he likes to help out with dps too. So i pull smaller so its less stress on us both, and so he gets to feel less like a walking benifect.

Being in the for the first time and doing single pulls is okay and normal, after all you, as tank, need to get a feel for the mobs. I can understand if you want to err on the side of caution in unfamiliar territory.

Tell your healer friend to man up, use a proper CD rotation and he can still AoE the crap out of the mobs.
I do it in every run that I heal and so can you. Us healers are absurdly powerful in this game.

[Lewtskie]

As a Warrior, massive pulls are the only way to actually feel any satisfaction in dungeons. That said, this is a really peculiar subject cause I feel pull rate has to vary on a bunch of things. Some dungeons force wall stops, or have mobs you want to keep separated, some dps Jobs are better with AoEs than others, even DPS with good AoEs may be played by people with terrible ability, I have Comcast and there can be days, albeit rarely, that my ping is abysmal and missing a cooldown or mob can happen.

In general, I feel a Tank SHOULD pull as much as they can by default as it sets a baseline and then adjust depending on the above. Always have that first large initial pull.

[OcieKo]

Why would you kick someone for not having done a dungeon before? Not sure if we are playing the same game, but most 4 man dungeons since like the hard modes at level 50 have been easy to pull to the wall and aoe. I think that's what their point is, at level 70 you know that's the norm and inexperience isn't really the excuse anymore. There's plenty of other excuses, bad gear, bad healer, refusal to do it because "you don't pay my sub" etc but experience only really matters for boss fights in these dungeons. As for your point about it not being a valid reason to kick the tank, the group asked the tank to pull more and said they were had his back, tank refused flat out, group imo had every right to remove him and roll the roulette again. I wouldn't personally because who knows how long that'd take to replace a tank, but I think whether it's reasonable or not is up to that individual.

I find it to be the norm that a tank should know where the next adds that need to be picked up come from. If they don't they shouldn't put themselves in a position for "surprises". I can be max gear, I still won't mass pull my first run, I want to know where mobs come from, how to group them, what AoEs/Abilities I need to watch for, which mobs can spike damage up, etc.

and i am saying that the reason given by the people in OP's discord was a valid one. they did not want to play with that tank, so they replaced him when they confirmed that said tank was not going to at least try to big pull. none of that was harassment.

what? being new is not grounds for being kicked and never did i say that. if you are new to content and are using that as an excuse to not work with your group or do your best i personally dont agree with it, but again that is up to the party.

in this specific example, you can be new to a dungeon and still make an attempt to big pull.

And none of what the tank did was being AFK, being Offline, Cheating, or Harassment, relying on a grey area to save you for kicking people for funsies is closer to harassment than playing in a way that isn't speed run meta. If you don't want to play with someone who isn't doing one of those 4 things clearly, the proper option is to leave, if you have 3/4 people well 3 people leave. Can't say how many times I've left pre-made DPS high and dry with no tank or healer for kicking one.

In OPs case I really see nothing wrong with it. It's the tank's right to decide they prefer small pulls but if he happens to be in a group where the majority would prefer and support a different style, it's just bad luck for everyone and majority wins.

Majority can opt to leave. The tank did nothing legitimately wrong, they moved, they pulled, they held aggro, they tanked.

[Rilifane]

I don't think you should be forced to put with everything simply because you queued in DF nor do I think it's harassment if you either point out that the majority would welcome and fully support (even in case of failure) an adjustment to playstyle or end up kicking someone because of too contradicting playstyles of one vs. the others.
This goes for all roles, not just tank.
It's within everyone's right to decide wether they want to play with someone or not. If one player doesn't like the playstyle of the other 3, I think the best solution is simply to leave. Neither leaving nor trying to come to terms with the others and simply forcing the own playstyle on the group is imo egoistic. If it's a clear majority situation, the one who doesnt seem to fit is best served by just leaving or getting kicked.
This doesn't have to get personal at all and the queue time for certain roles have nothing to do with how valuable their opinion is over others.
I got kicked once because the others didn't like that I spent a lot of time dpsing as a healer and felt sort of unsafe. Okay. Their decision. I wasn't willing to play in a way that I deemed inefficient nor were they willing to trust my abilities, so it's best to part ways early. I requeue, they look for replacement and the next groups are hopefully more to our liking.
In OPs case I really see nothing wrong with it. It's the tank's right to decide they prefer small pulls but if he happens to be in a group where the majority would prefer and support a different style, it's just bad luck for everyone and majority wins.

[Tellciel]

Rule number 1. Tank you very much.
Rule number 2. Heal-u-all and be humble.
Rule number 3. Dam-I need to shut up and wait in Queue longer. { DPS }

[Nyvara]

Rule number 1. Tank you very much.
Rule number 2. Heal-u-all and be humble.
Rule number 3. Dam-I need to shut up and wait in Queue longer. { DPS }

This whole thread reminds me why DPS queues are so long. :P

It also seems to me with the NA server split coming up we are ALL going to have to become more adaptive since we will likely be seeing a whole lot more of each other.

[Anienai]

Rule number 1. Tank you very much.
Rule number 2. Heal-u-all and be humble.
Rule number 3. Dam-I need to shut up and wait in Queue longer. { DPS }

I like you.

[Wolfman88]

This kind of unnecessary heat is why people refuse to play tank classes. Yes, tanks have to perform just like any other class and just like any other job there are people who perform better than others. Tanks get ‘special treatment’ because there isn’t many that can handle this kind of pressure (if you even want to call it that).

Because people put this pressure on tanks is why warriors have the “diva” image with their dps. If it wasn’t for warrior being in the state they are in right now, tank players would probably have been even less than they are now. It is because tanks have these expectations, fair or unfair, is the reason tanks can get away with a little bit more than healers and dps.

[Renato]

I also play main tank. DRK to be exact.

I used to be afraid of pulling large at lower levels (50 and below) because you lack some skills that would make large pulls a lot harder than what they should be. To be completely honest at Lv70, you should be pulling large. You have all the skills needed at a tank to hold aggro and mitigate damage as well as self heal. The healer can pretty much completely replenish your HP if need be as long as you're not standing in AoE pools and DPS roles will burn through groups of enemies like it's nothing. It's daunting at first but it's really not that difficult.

Sometimes I do pull smaller depending on the dungeon and the mobs though. Like during the Burn in the final room before the Mist Dragon with the Giga Worms. Only because there's constant AoEs being thrown out that makes postitioning really annoying if you pull them, the bugs that come from the sand and that flying creatures, it becomes an annoying AoE fest.

[Gemina]

It strikes me as odd since I know for a fact the same group of people that were upset about the removal of the tank refusing to try something new with larger pull despite the group in question telling them that they will be fine and they will support them through it.

What strikes me as odd is a group that is so willing to support a tank through larger pulls, completely changes their tone when he/she chooses not to comply. Talk about a two-faced group. You guys are/were so steadfast, that you were actually willing to take a disservice by having to wait around for another tank than just deal with smaller pulls. If I was that tank, I definitely would have blisted every single one of you after being kicked.

The group isn't entitled to jack schite. If you want to set the pace for a dungeon, then queue as a tank. They have that privilege and entitlement because it is a role with a lot of responsibility. Why do you think it's the least played role of the three? And you have to understand that crap like this is a big reason why they are the least played role, and will continue to be. Don't ever gripe about long DPS queues. I will be quick to bring up your OP if you do.