Can we remove Tank Stance?

[shao32]

Also implying all tank stances give defence. Warriors just get max hp and 20% heals.

Well let's be fair, at contrary that DRK and PLD, WAR have equilibrium heal every 60s and inner beast spam in defiance making it being the best defensive tank in the game by a mile, so it's already overcompensated.

[whiskeybravo]

Well let's be fair, at contrary that DRK and PLD, WAR have equilibrium heal every 60s and inner beast spam in defiance making it being the best defensive tank in the game by a mile, so it's already overcompensated.

Have you done Final Omega on War? I know I'm not the most optimal player but I haven't found a way to mitigate the random Target Analysis busters or short stacks without Defiance, outside of just making my healers deal with it. DRK/PLD do not require tank stance to mitigate these since they have Sheltron and TBN. "Best defensive tank by a mile" does have it's shortcomings.

[shao32]

Have you done Final Omega on War? I know I'm not the most optimal player but I haven't found a way to mitigate the random Target Analysis busters or short stacks without Defiance, outside of just making my healers deal with it. DRK/PLD do not require tank stance to mitigate these since they have Sheltron and TBN. "Best defensive tank by a mile" does have it's shortcomings.

i said in defiance is the best defensive tank by a mile with is true, DRK and PLD on they respective tank stances can't compete against the amount of mitigation and self healing of defiance kit + regular kit of WAR.

target analysis can be done easily with holmgang or his current kit, what a surprise, you can even take the hit alone if you get the vuln and healers have a lot of healing power to dealt with you HP without any problem, even if you use defiance and inner beast you can minimize the penalty with unchained, so i don't see any really shortcoming with the most ridiculously versatile kit of the game, specially for only 1 fight.

[whiskeybravo]

i said in defiance is the best defensive tank by a mile with is true, DRK and PLD on they respective tank stances can't compete against the amount of mitigation and self healing of defiance kit + regular kit of WAR.

target analysis can be done easily with holmgang or his current kit, what a surprise, you can even take the hit alone if you get the vuln and healers have a lot of healing power to dealt with you HP without any problem, even if you use defiance and inner beast you can minimize the penalty with unchained, so i don't see any really shortcoming with the most ridiculously versatile kit of the game, specially for only 1 fight.

It can target you every time but Holmgang is only available every other Target Analysis. Or if it selects the other tank repeatedly, being up front is not really enough damage to warrant Holmgang usage. For short stacks you are out of range so IB is not an option (well, barring the uptime strat which is complicated in it's own right).

[shao32]

snip

but you can use it for the shake of save CD's when you need it with is the point, and what short stacks? The one's on hello world? You can easily get close the boss and secure a inner beast if you want to.

*Large dungeon trash pulls
*healer(s) are down
*Fresh content
*MT just died
*Enmity reset
*Add phase
*shall I continue?

-On mass pulling I pull with tank stance with is suppose to be up every time you pull something, I grab agro and use my CD's properly since they mitigate a lot of damage, turn it off just a second after and spam aoes everything, it's not hard to do and yeah as a DRK I have it a bit easier with abysal and TBN but I do it all days without causing my healers loose anything.

-healers are down, well except you can save the run somehow at least for Savage is just let's restart bcs it's a waste of time, on dungeons boses well meaby I try it when we got to in to that extreme, on extreme if no one can res the just restart unless we are at 2% or something, all of this depends of the situation and cases that are not supposed to happen in the first place and if it's happen you can save it with different forms without passing by you tank stance, it's you last card.

-fresh content? Not really except you wanna have the first world down of Savage, I progress in every content doing the same as usual and there is no problem at all, in fact I abuse more of my CDs so I can see if I can take it easily or not, I have a lot of options before use tank stance.

-MT died? A provoke and agro combo calls normally a day, if is Savage it's depend but my raid use they tools properly, I can use 2 power slash to get time enough to my partners to use diversion and other skills.

-emity restet, there is only 1 boss this expansion that use that and was neo exdeath, I use tank stance there by force and was awful, that's why we need a rework, reset mechanics and actual tank stances (except for WAR) are unfun, but in resume it's not the norm, not right now at least.

-add phases don't live enough that a few aoes can keep without tank stance, on tsukuyomi I always just unleash and abysal and move alone they die pretty quick, on halicarnasus Savage a bit of the same, if you have a proper ninja even less reasons to use it there.

Everything is about to know how to use you tools properly and you find tank stances are just mere pull tools and nothing more, the JP forums are complaint that tank stances have lost his value.

I'm the first one that say we need a rework on tank stances, give us reasons to use it and stay on it, or just delete it all together and we use our agro combos more bcs are in the same situation.

Pd: no I din't look at fflogs, I don't care much about that web, it's just my normal strat for everything, tank stance grab something and turn it off until it dies, I still have to find something that force me to stay more than the 5 seconds it's take me to finish my agro combo with any tank.

[whiskeybravo]

but you can use it for the shake of save CD's when you need it with is the point, and what short stacks? The one's on hello world? You can easily get close the boss and secure a inner beast if you want to.

Use what for shake? And no, the party has to adjust for tank to be in melee range, it's not just a matter of "if you want to". Don't see why you have such a problem accepting the fact that War is a bit gimped in o12s, I was getting told that before we even started progging the fight 3-4 months ago.

[shao32]

Use what for shake? And no, the party has to adjust for tank to be in melee range, it's not just a matter of "if you want to". Don't see why you have such a problem accepting the fact that War is a bit gimped in o12s, I was getting told that before we even started progging the fight 3-4 months ago.

I don't consider this is the place to discuss this, but we'll, as my experience with my co-tank with is WAR we don't see any of the problems you are saying in any part of the fight, there is a plenty time and space to land a inner beast if you need it, I don't see the whole party have to adjust on hello world unless you are doing some crazy positionating strat, I even revised some of the down vids and guides with WAR pov and in all of then they can reach the boss just fine, except when they have to place the huge aoe and that one don't do much damage.

[Tsukino]

I wouldn't mind this. I don't particularly love or hate the tank stances, but it does seem like there are a lot of duty finder tanks who read what static raid group tanks post on forums about the "right" way to play and then fail all over the place.