Can we remove Tank Stance?

[shao32]

Tank stances should be reworked or removed but not for the bad players, but how poorly the stance scale with content, right now any proper tank will spend 99,99% of the fight in dps stance and 00,01% in tank stance for the pull, agro is not a problem if you are proper geared and know how to make a strong pull even with average gear.

The primary problem with tank stances are the 25% damage penalty (the penalty inself and the skills use in such stance make all tanks lose 25% of his maximun dps) and how clunky and punishing is use to it with DRK and PLD and the extra defense it's doesn't have any significative impac outside of mass pulling and even with that if you are good enough you can turn it off to make more dps.

[Dav2017]

tank is fun
watching enemies ass is not fun
lol

[Vnolan]

My dps is ok

As a tank I'm more concerned on properly keeping the aggro than on doing some more numbers.

wew

There's no advantage to having two, three or ten times as much aggro as the player in second on the list (the white bars with numbers at the bottom of job icons). The OT can provoke and then shirk the main tank, healers have lucid, casters have lucid and diversion, ranged have refresh and tactician, melee have diversion and NIN has Shadewalker and Smokescreen.

If we're talking lvl 70 content, the MT should use their hate combo once in the opener and that's it, especially if they're going to sit in tank stance. This is basic stuff. If you hear or see a tank using Rage of Halone, Butcher's Block or Power Slash and they already have a large enmity lead, they're new to tanking, they're watching TV or they're just bad.

The OT should not be using their hate combo unless they're establishing hate on an add. If a tank swap is being done, the OT will provoke, at which point, the MT will shirk them. If the OT is in tank stance or uses a hate combo while provoking, they're bad or they think the MT is bad (doesn't how to shirk).

Tanks don't go dps stance because the extra dps is needed - if that's the case the DPS in the party are bad - they go dps stance because there is no reason not to. An extra GCD from a healer every now and then if it's even needed isn't going to match the extra dps the tank puts out.

There is no stance dancing. The main tank will have tank stance on for the opening hate combo and that's it.

Tanks lead the party. I'm saying that's why I don't like playing them. They decide the pace of the run. In dungeons anyway.

Not always. If the healer is undergeared, big pulls aren't happening. If the healer is dpsing while keeping the tank healed and the healer decides to pull more, what's the tank going to say, "Spamming one skill is too hard, please don't pull more"?

[Shougun]

Just an aside, I feel like the tank system is flawed at least in their own concerns of when they thought of dark knight. They didn't want a blood tank because they didn't want players harming themselves, they felt it would create issues (at least one of the issues presented against blood magic). The thing is leaving tank stance is effectively harming yourself as your eHP does change. Kind of, imo, makes it seem like a blood tank is back on the table if it's okay to fiddle with your own eHP for damage (tank stance -> not).

[AxlStream]

Also implying all tank stances give defence. Warriors just get max hp and 20% heals.

[TheMightyMollusk]

I don't think they need to be removed, but I do think they need to be reworked. At the least, the damage penalty is too high.

[Transient_Shadow]

Having tanked a little bit I can see the validity of both sides. Back in HW I didn't really understand how to use Cleric stance properly and when they removed it I was really happy. And in all honesty it was a great learning tool for me. It helped me learn how to both heal and dps to great effect. That being said. Now that I know how to properly dps and heal I do miss the old Cleric Stance. It made the overworld easier and it made dpsing in dungeons more effective.

I think instead of going for one or the other we should have some kind of medium. I think adjusting stances in general would be better than out right removing them.

[shao32]

Also implying all tank stances give defence. Warriors just get max hp and 20% heals.

Well let's be fair, at contrary that DRK and PLD, WAR have equilibrium heal every 60s and inner beast spam in defiance making it being the best defensive tank in the game by a mile, so it's already overcompensated.

[Brightamethyst]

That being said. Now that I know how to properly dps and heal I do miss the old Cleric Stance. It made the overworld easier and it made dpsing in dungeons more effective.

Removing CS didn't affect healer DPS much at all. Healer damage spells now work on MND, not INT. The overall DPS is about the same, just no need to stance dance.

[whiskeybravo]

Well let's be fair, at contrary that DRK and PLD, WAR have equilibrium heal every 60s and inner beast spam in defiance making it being the best defensive tank in the game by a mile, so it's already overcompensated.

Have you done Final Omega on War? I know I'm not the most optimal player but I haven't found a way to mitigate the random Target Analysis busters or short stacks without Defiance, outside of just making my healers deal with it. DRK/PLD do not require tank stance to mitigate these since they have Sheltron and TBN. "Best defensive tank by a mile" does have it's shortcomings.