Can we remove Tank Stance?

[Burningskull]

Been in a few parties over the last few days where tanks weren't using their tank stance, were loosing hate, and dying without the damage resistance.

Could we just remove the stance and give them the damage resistance and enmity generation innately?

[Derio]

If they did that they would nerf tanks damage to match healers. Thus pushing some players to not play tank. Enmity is a group effort not just the tank. I do expect enmity generation to be buffed in 5.0 though.

[Burningskull]

Eh. Just give them the damage. Everyone wants to be a DPS now a days anyway.

Me myself I don't like to play tanks not because of the damage but because of the "lead" of the party thing.

[KaivaC]

If they did that they would nerf tanks damage to match healers. Thus pushing some players to not play tank. Enmity is a group effort not just the tank. I do expect enmity generation to be buffed in 5.0 though.

Not to mention, removing tank stances would require reworks, as some skills require you to be in a particular stance to use them.

[Rosentretter]

Eh. Just give them the damage. Everyone wants to be a DPS now a days anyway.

Me myself I don't like to play tanks not because of the damage but because of the "lead" of the party thing.

I hate the "everyone" argument. Speak for yourself. As a tank I'm more concerned on properly keeping the aggro than on doing some more numbers. My dps is ok, but if I'm a tank, I focus on tanking. And what's with the "lead" thing? It's better to have a tank pulling rather than the DPS doing it and wiping with 2 hits.

[Syphin_Polaris]

Tanks eating dirt even with a healer stapled to them is due to lack of CD use. As for losing aggro, its a giant circus act of teamwork that goes into that for a proper run. The tank can only control their own enmity (minus shirk, but that has it's own purpose). Everyone with access to any sort of enmity reducing skill should use them when appropriate. Ninja has Shadewalker to feed enmity to the tank, and diversion to use after shadewalker is used up. Casters have Lucid Dreaming to out right cut enmity in half, but also have diversion and should be using it on pull especially. Bards have tactician and refresh that cut current enmity in half, you get the idea.

As far as tank stance damage resistance, it is only 20% for pld and drk, which is equal to Rampart. Warriors don't even get a damage resistance with their stance, but instead of 25% increase to their health pool, and 20% increased healing received. Tank stance is only typically used on trash pulls in dungeons, and on the boss pull. I don't tank in savage so I personally can't speak much on use in there but its all about cooldown use and what they and the group can handle. If I am wrong on anything I said, please let me know.

[Enla]

People messing up and refusing to do their job properly does not mean there's something inherently wrong with how the job is implemented. I also don't think jobs should be designed around the lowest common denominator who either cannot play their class or outright refuse to do so.

[Burningskull]

I hate the "everyone" argument. Speak for yourself. As a tank I'm more concerned on properly keeping the aggro than on doing some more numbers. My dps is ok, but if I'm a tank, I focus on tanking. And what's with the "lead" thing? It's better to have a tank pulling rather than the DPS doing it and wiping with 2 hits.

Tanks lead the party. I'm saying that's why I don't like playing them. They decide the pace of the run. In dungeons anyway. And with the "pull everything" mentality I'm not comfortable trying to keep hate on 8+ mobs. Thus I don't like playing tank. I also don't like my tanks not keeping hate or dying to a tank buster cause they refuse to use tank stance cause they don't want to impact their precious DPS.

[Alaray]

Yeah, they're bad.

If they can't juggle the methodology behind doing it and fail at doing it, it's user error.

We don't need to redesign the class 'cuz some people are bad at it. It'd be like saying "can all DPS just have the same rotation to do DPS, because this one time I had a 900 DPS BLM in my group and..."

[Burningskull]

Perhaps I just needed to vent. Or maybe I should just suck it up and play tank instead lol. If Gunblade job is a tank I might do it... but I doubt it lol.