Can we remove Tank Stance?

[Fredco191]

I’d rather they add actual hair physics.

[Ftail]

If they keep aggro and survive everything thrown at them without needing Cure 2/Benefic 2/Adloquium spam, it's not really an issue...

But if they're constantly dropping aggro and dying, just "kindly remind" them to use their tank stance.

You kindly remind them and some turn it on but others call you a bad healer. "It's your job to keep my HP up no matter how fast I'm dropping on wall to wall pulls. As long as I'm holding aggro nothing else matters." Completely ignoring the fact that healers can heavily out DPS the tanks on huge add pulls and by dropping so fast that the healer has to Cure 2 / Aldo Spam, they are actually making the run longer for everyone with the net loss in DPS.

If a tank is in a raid, and switching in and out of Tank stance, i'll tell him good job and give him a pat on the back. But, it irks me when these noob tanks think they are top tier players by never switching in tank stances when appropriate.

[Kazrah]

The primary problem is it costs you a gcd and MP to activate it, which during combat is clunky and potentially detrimental as well. The MP cost is even greater for DRKs whose overall damage is heavily tied to their MP along with a an extremely potent damage mitigatory with TBN.

This is partially my mindset on the matter. The other part is a "one stance" approach to each tank:

1) For Paladin, either remove Sword Oath or change it to a cleave effect buff (ST weaponskills hit nearby targets for x% damage) or some sort of buff that doesn't feel so underwhelming. Sword Oath now might look good on a parse, but to a player who isn't violating ToS for the better or worse of other players, there's no real visual appeal that makes using it worth it as a tank compared to the dps stances of the other two tanks.

2) While Warrior is more or less fine, it can be shortened even further by removing Deliverance, baking the damage increase from it into the Storm's Eye damage buff (if they don't want to bake it into ALL Warrior skills), put Fell Cleave and Decimate on the same 15 second CD, have Infuriate reset the CDs of both in addition to beast gauge increase, and Inner Release removing their CD for its duration. Furthermore, Beast gauge could just be a general thing to compensate.

3) With Dark Knight, when was the last time you tanked anything without Darkside up? Make it passive with the MP regen removal only active while in combat, reduce the penalty to damage dealt with Grit to offset it and have any weaponskills or abilities with an extra effect under Darkside to be baseline effects.

If anything, it's not the tank stances that should be removed, but rather the dps stances.

[silentwindfr]

If they did that they would nerf tanks damage to match healers. Thus pushing some players to not play tank. Enmity is a group effort not just the tank. I do expect enmity generation to be buffed in 5.0 though.

honestly if you are normally equiped the emnity generation is not a trouble, the real trouble is when you have a huge difference of gear between the tank and the dps.... or if you don't use the tank stance.
i have seen a lot of tank thinking they was here for dps, but that not the role of the tank, the tank role is to get the aggros and survive, dps is secondary. yes in raid a good tank dps can make the run more smooth, but honestly with the right stuff, people don't need the tank dps.

This is partially my mindset on the matter. The other part is a "one stance" approach to each tank:

1) For Paladin, either remove Sword Oath or change it to a cleave effect buff (ST weaponskills hit nearby targets for x% damage) or some sort of buff that doesn't feel so underwhelming. Sword Oath now might look good on a parse, but to a player who isn't violating ToS for the better or worse of other players, there's no real visual appeal that makes using it worth it as a tank compared to the dps stances of the other two tanks.

2) While Warrior is more or less fine, it can be shortened even further by removing Deliverance, baking the damage increase from it into the Storm's Eye damage buff (if they don't want to bake it into ALL Warrior skills), put Fell Cleave and Decimate on the same 15 second CD, have Infuriate reset the CDs of both in addition to beast gauge increase, and Inner Release removing their CD for its duration. Furthermore, Beast gauge could just be a general thing to compensate.

3) With Dark Knight, when was the last time you tanked anything without Darkside up? Make it passive with the MP regen removal only active while in combat, reduce the penalty to damage dealt with Grit to offset it and have any weaponskills or abilities with an extra effect under Darkside to be baseline effects.

If anything, it's not the tank stances that should be removed, but rather the dps stances.

the paladin will probably have a rework because of the merge between tp and mp... some skill loose them interest with this change or some tactic will not be used anymore, like the fact to empty your mp for use the spell of damage.
the trouble of the tank stance and dps stance, is mostly for make more smooth the change between mt and ot.... take this out and it will become a pain for the tank to work together and switch aggros.

people need to learn that them role as tank is being a tank and stop to try to switch stance in middle of tanking for get a bit of dps.... yes it's a viable technic, but honestly you are punished for do this, that why it cost gcd/mp and it's normal...

[LineageRazor]

Tank stances definitely need a rework. It's long been the case that tanks have skirted the edge of survivability; as long as they can stay alive, any resources beyond that should go to DPS. This made tank stance more of an enmity tool than a survivability tool - but the addition of Shirk pretty much made that a non-issue, as well. Now, in the toughest content, tanks are rarely in tank stance outside of the first rotation or so; sometimes not even that. Tank stance is ironically used more in casual dungeons, and such, to enable ridiculously large mob group pulls (which they enable with aplomb).

Not sure what could be done to make tank stances more relevant, but they're on the edge of irrelevancy as it stands.

[Granyala]

I hope not, stance dancing is actually fun for some people. I was really sad when they changed Cleric Stance to a useless cool down.

What dancing?
If you are doing it properly, during boss fights, you are in DPS stance 99% of the time, esp in dungeons.
For trash, I don't bother deactivating it.

[whiskeybravo]

but you can use it for the shake of save CD's when you need it with is the point, and what short stacks? The one's on hello world? You can easily get close the boss and secure a inner beast if you want to.

Use what for shake? And no, the party has to adjust for tank to be in melee range, it's not just a matter of "if you want to". Don't see why you have such a problem accepting the fact that War is a bit gimped in o12s, I was getting told that before we even started progging the fight 3-4 months ago.

[Shougun]

Tanks always being in DD mode with cooldown duration based tank stance might work, it's basically how everyone wants their tank to play outside of progression really crazy content (of course the change would mean new savage content would need to be designed with that change, and old savage content you can just overgear to compensate for duration based tank stancing). Also now that it's duration based remove the damage down.

Still think each tank having a more unique stance system would be fun, but am worried it would lead to certain boss mechanics heavily biased to certain stance management systems.

I'm fine with stance dancing but the dance is relatively minimal except when you're under-geared or really confused/new to a content lol. I guess it's nice when you get a healer who doesn't want to heal, then you just go the whole dungeon in can't touch this mode.

Anyways I believe if SE feels uncomfortable having blood magic, like they did with dark knight, where you sacrifice health to do more damage then tank's stance system should also cause them to feel uncomfortable. They've also said they don't like hurting your own stats sort of abilities, which again tank system is. You take a huge hit to your eHP (effective hp) when you switch out of tank stance, but you take a huge hit to damage when you enter tank stance (on top of the fact that you're losing the damage stance buff).

[AxlStream]

2) While Warrior is more or less fine, it can be shortened even further by removing Deliverance, baking the damage increase from it into the Storm's Eye damage buff (if they don't want to bake it into ALL Warrior skills), put Fell Cleave and Decimate on the same 15 second CD, have Infuriate reset the CDs of both in addition to beast gauge increase, and Inner Release removing their CD for its duration. Furthermore, Beast gauge could just be a general thing to compensate.

Do you want Warrior mains to uninstall? Because that's how you get Warrior mains to uninstall. 15 second CDs on our best gauge dumps and abilities. What a joke.

[shao32]

Use what for shake? And no, the party has to adjust for tank to be in melee range, it's not just a matter of "if you want to". Don't see why you have such a problem accepting the fact that War is a bit gimped in o12s, I was getting told that before we even started progging the fight 3-4 months ago.

I don't consider this is the place to discuss this, but we'll, as my experience with my co-tank with is WAR we don't see any of the problems you are saying in any part of the fight, there is a plenty time and space to land a inner beast if you need it, I don't see the whole party have to adjust on hello world unless you are doing some crazy positionating strat, I even revised some of the down vids and guides with WAR pov and in all of then they can reach the boss just fine, except when they have to place the huge aoe and that one don't do much damage.