Sexual harassment

[BluntGamerChick]

If you think this thread or it's contained topic is funny please leave... this is not the thread for you...

I agree, unfortunately there are too many who think this is a funny or unimportant issue. such people are usually those who have no idea what its like to be harassed, raped, or assaulted physically. I unfortunately know all 3. But lack of experience should be no excuse for apathy. The ability to feel empathy for another living thing is at the core of any evolved being. I find it sad and troubling to see so many lack that simple and infinitely important quality these days. But I thank you for bringing up the topic.

[MoroMurasaki]

Maybe I'm misreading, but are you actually blaming the victim because she "knew better"? You really must've never been abused if a) you think being 18 means someone's magically incapable of being abused unless they """let it""" happen and b) you think knowing better would actually stop someone from being abused. I truly wish it worked that way, but people don't always have control over how others treat (and mistreat) them.

And I don't know about you, but I'm of the mind to believe the victim, because I'm not a heartless scumbag that's more inclined to doubt someone when they say they've been hurt.

And who was actually "mature" at 18? I sure wasn't. I'm pretty sure the only people who think being 18 means you're mature are people under 18.

Where do they blame the victim?

Where do they suggest being 18 makes you magically immune to abuse?

Where do you get off saying people who don't default to believing everything a victim says are heartless scumbags? What if I accused your mother/father/husband/wife of rape? Would you just believe me outright? No, because blanket statements around something like this are overwhelmingly stupid.

[Okamimaru]

Ok let's reign it in a little.... save the bickering for the parser debate threads... focus on topic

[Doozer]

I like that everyone has decided to argue against everything I say, but it's distracting from the topic at hand. Sexual harassment in-game needs to be addressed. It's not about believing accusations, it's about action being taken when proof is there and also teaching people not to sexually harass others in the first place.

[Melichoir]

I like that everyone has decided to argue against everything I say, but it's distracting from the topic at hand. Sexual harassment in-game needs to be addressed. It's not about believing accusations, it's about action being taken when proof is there and also teaching people not to sexually harass others in the first place.

We're taking umbridge with some of your positions.

I agree with this though. If theres evidence, then yeah, that is something to be addressed. Just bear in mind its case by case.

[Doozer]

We're taking umbridge with some of your positions.

Yeah, like how I condone genocide or some shit because I said some opinions shouldn't be allowed.

[MoroMurasaki]

I like that everyone has decided to argue against everything I say, but it's distracting from the topic at hand. Sexual harassment in-game needs to be addressed. It's not about believing accusations, it's about action being taken when proof is there and also teaching people not to sexually harass others in the first place.

There are very few people in this thread that have argued against the idea of appropriate action being taken against players who sexually harrass others. The issue people bring up with the TMP case is the lack of anything SE would consider evidence as, to my knowledge, there is little to no ingame chat logs supporting the victims. If these women want to go to the police with their grievances that's another matter entirely but as they stand right now I don't feel like SE has what they need to enact any sort of punishment without stepping outside their own guidelines.

To be very clear, since apparently not immediately blindly agreeing with anyone who accuses someone of sexual hareassment has connotations beyond desiring evidence, I don't feel like sexual harrassment is okay. It was a contributing factor for me in my decision to leave ESO because at the time I played they only had voice chat so there really wasn't an option to hide my gender. I think those who sexually harrass others are generally just crappy people... but I still can't get behind the idea that it is okay to blindly believe anyone who cries wolf.

Yeah, like how I condone genocide or some shit because I said some opinions shouldn't be allowed.

I didn't suggest you condoned genocide, at the risk of bringing up posts that appear to have been deleted I suggested that you conflated the issues that arise from allowing opinions such as "question everything, don't automatically believe anyone who claims to be the victim of abuse" with those that could be seen in response to talk of genocide being acceptable.

Saying "don't automatically believe everyone who makes an abuse allegation" leads to due process and the gathering of evidence before potentially ruining someone's life. Saying "genocide is okay" can lead to... genocide. The consequences there are not even comperable which is why your defense of "silence this opinion I don't like because some other opinions can be really harmful" doesn't fly.

[Rogatum]

I like that everyone has decided to argue against everything I say, but it's distracting from the topic at hand. Sexual harassment in-game needs to be addressed. It's not about believing accusations, it's about action being taken when proof is there and also teaching people not to sexually harass others in the first place.

How does one go about teaching someone to not sexually harass or abuse another? I am no expert, but aren't issues of sexual harassment or abuse products of misplaced desire, and warped view of power and or authority. Can you really teach someone with that mindset that it is wrong before the action happens?

Wouldn't it make more sense to teach people how to protect themselves from such people? What to do if someone feels have they been harassed or abused in any way?

[SilverObi]

How does one go about teaching someone to not sexually harass or abuse another? I am no expert, but aren't issues of sexual harassment or abuse products of misplaced desire, and warped view of power and or authority. Can you really teach someone with that mindset that it is wrong before the action happens?

Wouldn't it make more sense to teach people how to protect themselves from such people? What to do if someone feels have they been harassed or abused in any way?

Careful with that kinda logic, it makes too much sense. People who want to harm others in any way, shape, or form most likely already know what they're doing is wrong. No amount of teaching will prevent people with ill intent from acting on their designs. We can however teach people how best to defend themselves to prevent becoming another statistic.

And all we can do as people when someone does feel harassed or abused is listen to their situation and gather all the information to make the best choice for the current issue. Obviously this varies a lot depending on the severity of the accusation

[Solarra]

How does one go about teaching someone to not sexually harass or abuse another? I am no expert, but aren't issues of sexual harassment or abuse products of misplaced desire, and warped view of power and or authority. Can you really teach someone with that mindset that it is wrong before the action happens?

Wouldn't it make more sense to teach people how to protect themselves from such people? What to do if someone feels have they been harassed or abused in any way?

I'd say the best approach would be to hit this from both angles, ie. target both potential abusers and potential victims. Most people who sexually harass others absolutely do know what they are doing is wrong, are aware they are causing distress and simply do not care as long as they can get away with it.
So, if we want to reduce sexual-harassment, creating an environment where it is not tolerated and there are severe consequences will act as a deterrent. It's not exactly 'teaching' people not to do it, just making it clear that such behaviour carries huge risks.

Teaching potential victims how to protect themselves is important, but if you only do that, it tends to be interpreted by many people as simply saying we shouldn't get into situations where somebody can abuse us, and if we do, it's 100% our fault (just look at some of the posts in this thread). That is a dangerous message to send out. It lets the abuser off the hook and its shames the victim, which may make people less likely to speak out.
If an abuser targets someone who fails to protect themselves due to youth, lack of experience, being ill, stressed by real-life issues etc then I'd like to think the community would be there for them, no matter how obvious the danger might seem to anyone looking at their situation from the outside.

Of course, telling people what the danger-signs are and what they can do if they find themselves being harassed is absolutely vital, too.