Been running Ridorana Lighthouse the whole week and...

[BillyKaplan]

I feel it benefits the group in the sense that everyone within the group that helped clear the encounter has equal opportunity at what has dropped.

Loot and scoot. Another issue that was there before this change, but at least then the dps who wanted to roll on that healer piece couldn't because the healers could Need on it. Now they can't.

[Awha]

Loot and scoot. Another issue that was there before this change, but at least then the dps who wanted to roll on that healer piece couldn't because the healers could Need on it. Now they can't.

I am sorry Billy, I get where you are coming from it, but I just cannot see how granting one player within a group priority over giving everyone an equal opportunity at what has dropped due the collective effort of the group is a bad thing. I understand that I am sure many players have been negatively impacted by this change for every negative outcome I am sure someone in this game has had a positive one due to the change. If I look at it from you perspective I could see how one would feel slighted by the change. For lack of better words it is hard for me to accept another desire at something that has dropped over another. Sure the item might be an upgrade, but would that slight upgrade provide such a huge boon to the groups effectiveness that it should granted priority over everyone else in the group? It is hard for me to example but I simply cannot come to terms with that notion. I guess it comes down to I do not believe in the concept of "need" and everything is want based for me when it comes to rewards. People will make their case as to why they feel their want has more value for another, but it is just hard for me to see the difference between need and want when it comes to a video game.

I am sure in the end though the point that the majority in this thread have made will not fall of deaf ears that this change will be reverted.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I just cannot see how granting one player within a group priority over giving everyone an equal opportunity at what has dropped due the collective effort of the group is a bad thing.

Because it removes control away from players and makes everyone entirely dependent on multiple layers of RNG. If they wanted a fully equal opportunity system, adopt a token system so people aren't forced to not only run Ridorana several times, but run it several more when something like the OP depicted happens.

What concerns me is if they adopted this system in other content. Twelve help us all if Savage had Greed only rules. If you ever want to kill a pug scene...

[Penthea]

I am sorry Billy, I get where you are coming from

Sorry but to be blunt you really don't.

For lack of better words it is hard for me to accept another desire at something that has dropped over another. Sure the item might be an upgrade, but would that slight upgrade provide such a huge boon to the groups effectiveness that it should granted priority over everyone else in the group? It is hard for me to example but I simply cannot come to terms with that notion.

Why are you claiming that alliance loot is a slight upgrade? For some players it's a massive upgrade. You need 335 ilvl to enter Ridorana but it drops 360 loot. That's a massive jump in ilvls. 25 ilvl gain is crazy high.

Even at ilvl 350 the 360 gear can be a huge upgrade if the 360 version has better itemisation than the 350.

Not all the tomestone gear is great for every class. Someone replacing 360 tomestone gear with 360 Ridorana gear can have the same effect as increasing ilvl if their class is very reliant on some stats and gets very little benefit from others.

Higher ilvl doesn't always mean better gear. I replaced my 370 boots with 360 from Ridorana because the huge chunk of crit I gained far outweighed the minor hp and mind gain from the 370.

I think you fail to see how giving priority for gear is fair because you don't know how combat stats work. Alliance gear isn't as insignificant as you think.

[Awha]

Sorry but to be blunt you really don't.



Why are you claiming that alliance loot is a slight upgrade? For some players it's a massive upgrade. You need 335 ilvl to enter Ridorana but it drops 360 loot. That's a massive jump in ilvls. 25 ilvl gain is crazy high.

Even at ilvl 350 the 360 gear can be a huge upgrade if the 360 version has better itemisation than the 350.

Not all the tomestone gear is great for every class. Someone replacing 360 tomestone gear with 360 Ridorana gear can have the same effect as increasing ilvl if their class is very reliant on some stats and gets very little benefit from others.

Higher ilvl doesn't always mean better gear. I replaced my 370 boots with 360 from Ridorana because the huge chunk of crit I gained far outweighed the minor hp and mind gain from the 370.

I think you fail to see how giving priority for gear is fair because you don't know how combat stats work. Alliance gear isn't as insignificant as you think.

It is a slight upgrade in the sense that I doubt having one upgrade will make the overall run that much quicker or more effective as a whole. If it does fair enough, I have not done the math or looked at the longs to do the math how much time such an upgrade with shave off the overall run. I mean for me that benefits of that would have to either equal or surpass the effects of the group for it to right to take away the groups right to roll on the item.

I do get where you are coming form, you want role priority due to the fact that you took the time to queue up as that role and you should be granted some level of safety against other players snagging what could potential be an upgrade? I mean that is my basic understanding, I have always had a hard time understanding the notion of giving certain players in a PuG setting priority over others. I do not like RNG or gear treadmills, but if I had to pick my poison, it would be a token based system and this greed only rule set works far better with a token system over a straight gear reward system.

[Penthea]

I do get where you are coming form

You keep saying that but you don't.

you want role priority due to the fact that you took the time to queue up as that role and you should be granted some level of safety against other players snagging what could potential be an upgrade?

My personal reasoning for wanting role priority is so I can help my raid team. If my gear gets better then the team has increased chance of killing the boss. Sure something might be a minor upgrade for me, but if several individuals get minor upgrades then the team as a whole gets a big upgrade. This reasoning is actually standard across most raiding teams.

but would that slight upgrade provide such a huge boon to the groups effectiveness that it should granted priority over everyone else in the group?

You don't get where I'm coming from because you don't look at the bigger picture. You keep going on about how the upgrade won't affect the alliance raid's performance, but you don't even think about how that upgrade might affect other content.

[Awha]

You keep saying that but you don't.
My personal reasoning for wanting role priority is so I can help my raid team. If my gear gets better then the team has increased chance of killing the boss. Sure something might be a minor upgrade for me, but if several individuals get minor upgrades then the team as a whole gets a big upgrade. This reasoning is actually standard across most raiding teams.

You don't get where I'm coming from because you don't look at the bigger picture. You keep going on about how the upgrade won't affect the alliance raid's performance, but you don't even think about how that upgrade might affect other content.

Because those that are affected in the moment will be the alliance raid, who is the say that your current group that you were granted priority over will run more content with you in the future to reap the benefits of your upgrade thus making their future runs better overall. If we are talking a static situation or a PF that does multiple runs I can see where you are coming from, but from my experience most 24's are one offs.

You have no way of knowing what they're going to use it for. You do know, however, that they have the job unlocked at the right level for it. Which is more than enough reason to go "hm. That person probably needs it more than that other person who isn't currently on that job".
Right now, people still roll on the gear with those exact reasons, difference is they win them over people who need them for their main raison d'etre - being used by battle classes.

That is the point I was trying to make the group has no way of knowing what a player is going to do with the gear, and because they do not know why should they be granted priority simply due to their role / job? In a static setting it makes sense, but in a PuG setting granting priority to another due to their role or job seems odd to me. More or less blind faith that they will put the item to good use since they have happened to queue with that job in the moment.

[Penthea]

Because those that are effected in the moment will be the alliance raid, who is the say that your current group that you were granted priority over will run more content with you in the future to reap the benefits of your upgrade thus making their future runs better overall. If we are talking a static situation or a PF that does multiple runs I can see where you are coming from, but from my experience most 24's are one offs.

Before the last patch I used to run 24 mans several times a week to cap tomes, gear up jobs, get glams and to just generally have fun. I have only done one since the patch. Greed only made 24 mans one offs for me.

Also for all your talk of fairness your statement in that quote is incredibly selfish. You have basically said "if someone getting an upgrade doesn't make a noticeable difference to me then I don't want them to have priority on an upgrade even if it's for their role"

[BillyKaplan]

More or less blind faith that they will put the item to good use since they have happened to queue with that job in the moment.

So you say better no faith at all and screw the righteous who'd go through with the faith given to them.

I'm not surprised, at this point I'm just shaking my head. And a static is the one where it won't make sense because you all agree on what you roll on before you go in there, so THERE playing the job you're most comfortable on instead of what you want the item for makes sense.