Been running Ridorana Lighthouse the whole week and...

[Trunks]

I really only have one question: what problem did this change solve?

[MrSmiley]

In my eyes everyone in group should have equal priority since it is the effort of the group that allows for the gear to be obtained. Sure you could feel that your efforts on the job inherently holds more value simply because the piece of gear that dropped aligns with the role you choose. For me that simply does not make sense, and seems highly unfair since that gear that dropped would not have been up for grabs without the group. Sure in some extreme cases you have players that want to be carried, but it inherently does not promote laziness, just a byproduct of treating the group more fairly on a larger level. Hope that makes sense.

Fairness and equality are not the same thing, this new system treats everyone equally but not necessarily fairly. I saw a drg get outrolled on a chestpiece by a person who didn't even have lancer unlocked, that is not fair. The gear aligning with the role you chose is a less equal but more fair system, a tank gets first shot at tank gear, a healer gets first shot at healer gear. A bard winning a tank piece when a tank inside the group, tanking for that bard needs it and wanted it, is unfair.

Most of all, nothing was wrong with the old system nor was it complained about. This change was unwanted and unnecessary.

[Awha]

I really only have one question: what problem did this change solve?

Would not say this change solves a problem nor would I think reverting it would solve a problem. Since the problem is based on the perception of those that it has effected. For example I know my view is not popular, but I am of the mindset that everyone in a group should have equal chance at rolling on a item and roles inherently should not grant priority. So this change makes head way towards that ideal personally, while if you feel otherwise the change hinders their ideal which it does. While I would like for SE to expand on this system I highly doubt it will stay in place for much longer since the majority of players seem to dislike the change which is understandable.

Fairness and equality are not the same thing, this new system treats everyone equally but not necessarily fairly. I saw a drg get outrolled on a chestpiece by a person who didn't even have lancer unlocked, that is not fair. The gear aligning with the role you chose is a less equal but more fair system, a tank gets first shot at tank gear, a healer gets first shot at healer gear. A bard winning a tank piece when a tank inside the group, tanking for that bard needs it and wanted it, is unfair.

Most of all, nothing was wrong with the old system nor was it complained about. This change was unwanted and unnecessary.

You are right fairness and equality are the not the same, and that is why I said to me personally seems unfair. Though outside of that I have said overall the change puts everyone on a equal playing field which overall in my view is better then granting priority to roles / jobs. I rather have everyone overall be on equal footing then have some players have what I feel is an unfair priority. SE tried something new, and I personally like the new direction, though as I said before I doubt i t will stay in place for long since most people seem to dislike the change. As I said before to me having a equal system trumps having a so called fair one.

[Penthea]

In my eyes everyone in group should have equal priority since it is the effort of the group that allows for the gear to be obtained.

It seems that to you the act of simply turning up makes a player who may not have a tank unlocked be just as deserving for tank gear as an actual tank.

That you find this to be logical, acceptable or fair is impressively baffling.

By the way we already get participation loot, and they're called tomestones. It's not like everyone always walked away empty-handed before need rolls were removed.

[Awha]

It seems that to you the act of simply turning up makes a player who may not have a tank unlocked be just as deserving for tank gear as an actual tank.

That you find this to be logical, acceptable or fair is impressively baffling.

By the way we already get participation loot, and they're called tomestones. It's not like everyone always walked away empty-handed before need rolls were removed.

Might be baffling, but I am also baffled by how some feel simply because a drop matches with ones role they should be granted priority over the group. Granted I am an odd one that for the most part if my co tank was okay with it I would simply mention everyone should roll greed. I mean if my co tank was not okay not going to fight them over it if they roll need awesome. Just does not sit right with me that despite the labor of the group certain people get a priority due to roles matching up. Please do not get me wrong when I lost a piece of gear to a player that was dead most the time I did get tilted, but overall I like the change. Another issues I do not run 24's that often so that might also paint my bias. Overall yeah I tend to be the type of person that values equability over everything else when it is possible.

[BillyKaplan]

but I am also baffled by how some feel simply because a drop matches with ones role they should be granted priority over the group.

You don't know why someone running WHM in those raids should have priority over someone who has no healers at all? Really?
You make it sound like the Need roll kept people from getting gear period, but they had their own Need roll, the Greed roll was there, and as mentioned before you got tomestones for your trouble so you got an upgrade at the end regardless.
You know what was a much worse offender when it came to keeping people from their loot? RNG. Two weeks of running Weeping City non-stop before I even saw the caster top drop. Le sigh.

Another issues I do not run 24's that often so that might also paint my bias.

If it doesn't affect you, please stop telling the people hurt by this change to accept it.

[Penthea]

Might be baffling, but I am also baffled by how some feel simply because a drop matches with ones role they should be granted priority over the group.

Just does not sit right with me that despite the labor of the group certain people get a priority due to roles matching up.

You can't be serious.

It doesn't sit right with you if gear is more likely to go to a player who can get the best use of it?

It appears you like equality to the point of being impractical. Good god I hope for other players out there that you never lead a raid team. Players would be watching their BiS go to the wrong classes because of your blind equality.

[Awha]

If it doesn't affect you, please stop telling the people hurt by this change to accept it.

I do not think I have ever mentioned that people should accept the change (if I did it you felt I have implied such I apologize) all I have been saying is that I do not understand why role / job should grant priority in the sense of being treated equally. I can see how it is unfair, but fairness is kind of weird since in my eyes the current system is more fair because it puts everyone on a equal playing field, and clearly many do not. Which is fine, but I do not think I have ever mentioned people should blindly accept what they do not approve of. I agree I dislike RNG with a passion, and wish it was not a factor but I do understand how that is a necessary evil when the game revolves around vertical progression.

You can't be serious.

It doesn't sit right with you if gear is more likely to go to a player who can get the best use of it?

It appears you like equality to the point of being impractical. Good god I hope for other players out there that you never lead a raid team. Players would be watching their BiS go to the wrong classes because of your blind equality.

Sorry I really do not see how a job / role inherently grants priority over another. I do understand where the other side is coming from though, I just do not agree with it. Granted my view point is based on the wishful thinking that SE will in the future add an npc that allows for gear-to-gear trade. That is wishful thinking.

[Trunks]

Would not say this change solves a problem nor would I think reverting it would solve a problem.

If there was no problem they should not have changed it. Your "ideal" is all well and good, but the fact is that no other content handles loot rolls this way -- and there are a number of good reasons for that. In deviating from the way people generally expect the game to work (because that's how the game has worked in all content up to that point), they really should have offered a compelling rationale. No such rationale has been articulated, to my knowledge, by any party.

Perhaps the reasoning is "it makes it easier to gear off-Jobs". Well, maybe, but we're talking about a raid with a weekly loot lockout. (And besides, do we really want to start giving people gear for Jobs which they aren't earning by playing that Job?) The only other thing I can come up with is that they're trying to force people who want gear from Lighthouse to have to run it more to get what they want from it. That's an odd route to take for second-rate gear that's supposed to help players "catch up" (and almost comical given the absurdities they've unleashed with their failure to implement hard or soft enrages on the bosses in there).

It just makes no sense, from any angle.

[BillyKaplan]

snip

Equal =\= fair, as been explained to you before. And if you really don't see what's wrong with giving the same rolling rights to someone who mains a job, and someone who doesn't even have the job unlocked... well. Not much more to say, is there?