Been running Ridorana Lighthouse the whole week and...

[Awha]

It's actually completely fair as it gives everyone an equal chance of obtaining the item. Of course, Need was there specifically because rolling for gear should not be egalitarian. Bards need bard gear. Healers need healer gear. It doesn't make sense to put everyone at an equal disadvantage when rolling for gear. This is a classic case of devs meddling with something that was working fine before.

The begin part does cover what I have been trying to say. End of the day where I differ from mostly everyone is that I do not feel that my role as a tank should inherently grants me priority over another, even if that person does not have the class unlocked without getting into murky territory of using tools to judge contribution (which to a degree I do support) how can really say with a straight face my persevered need since I am actively playing that role means I should be granted priority. In the end I am also one of those players that does not think a tank is the end all be all when it comes to pace, when I first started to around the tail end of HW if a group wanted larger / quicker pace and I could not handle it I would say thanks and take my leave. I know it is a little off topic I simply do not think role in itself grants another more value over another.

Greed all leaving everything at the door gives everyone in the group an equal chance, now if they will put it to use or not that is another story but at that point we are making assumptions and if we accept assumptions on certain fronts shouldn't we do the same for the rest. Since I am sure most people could come up with a reason why they deserve something over another. Really wish they would just switch to a token loot system everyone rolls on the token and they hand it in for what they want, foolish me though maybe the greed all was a means of them tinkering with that idea. For the life of me I do not see how giving same percentage at winning something / anything is selfish, to be granting priority simply because of role ignoring all other factors is silly as many have pointed out, but that is what the other system just did. The old system treated everyone as an equal contributing factor, while not offering the same consideration when it came to rolling on the rewards that dropped.

Really wish I could covey what I am saying better since as I mentioned before I do think a lot has been misunderstood due to my poor explanation.

There is a huge difference between having equal chance for loot and equal chance for useful loot.

If I want to get the most out of greed only, I need to roll on as much as I can to ensure I actually get my weekly loot. However I don't have every role at 70 which means there is a smaller pool of loot that is useful to me.

I have the three healers and rdm at 70. If the other healer in my alliance has everything at 70 then that means their chances of getting useful loot is far higher than mine...even though we are currently playing the same role and should theoretically be competing for the same gear.

The fact is with the greed only system the less roles you have at 70, the worse your odds are at winning useful gear. This is not equality.

With need rolls, everyone who rolls need to compete for a piece of gear all have the same odds of winning. By taking need rolls away you're left with a system that favours people who play several roles over those who do not.

Need rolls allow us to only play the classes we enjoy without reducing our odds of getting gear when competing with those who are also playing the same role. You can't increase your chance of need rolls giving you useful gear by lvling up other roles. You can do that with greed only. That system too strongly favours players who have every role at 70.

How do we determine if the loot will be useful without making assumption? Might be accurate to assume if a person is currently playing that role they will find use in the item. We are still making an assumption though, and if we accept that assumption shouldn't be accept other assumptions? While I try not to make assumptions as to what a person will do what an item, I do fail at it. I will admit that the current system has a bias towards people with more then one job leveled, the other system had a bias towards people actively playing the role / job. Both have a bias, how can we reasonably choose which bias to favor? This really boils down to which side feels their bias has more worth, but since we cannot determine that just switch everything over to a token based system and make it need all or whatever. So everyone rolls on the token, and whoever wins the token uses said token to get the piece of gear they want.

I do not think the current system is perfect, I think it is just as flawed as the previous system. Though if I had to pick between the two I would give every player within the group an equal chance for loot.

Tldr: Both systems have a bias, and I do not think it is possible to determine which bias we should favor just switch over to a token based system and let everyone roll on the token and use the token to buy the piece of gear that they want.

Isn't it obvious to you? The bias that doesn't punish players for wanting to play only some classes or players who have not yet had the chance to level up more classes.

Again you're quoting my latest post in a post of yours that came before it. Why? Trying to make yourself look good by adding more of your so-called stance on equality by editing a post two people liked?

It is still a bias, and favoring one over the other is pure entitlement since that comes down to saying I think my bias is better. Which is why I do not like system, but if I had to choose I would pick the bias that favors me just like anyone else would. I am also trying to civil here, I am saving post count since SE places a limit on how many posts one can make a day, I did not want to go over again so at the start I forgot but has very little to do with the like count. The main thing I have been trying to say is that both systems suck, both have their flaws, and depending on ones views each can be viewed as selfish. I only fair system is a token system, and in my position if a token based system is not a thing I rather give every member an equal chance on loot across the table. Do not think I have ever said your view is wrong, I have said that I do not understand you view since I do not but I respect your view.

I'm just waiting for that thread: "Thank you SE, 'all greed' solved my problem with 24-man loot system"

At the core I do think All greed is a terrible system, just as I feel need / greed based off role was a crap shoot of a system. 5.0 token based loot system! We can dream.

Bias for what, exactly? If we're to be real here. Alliance raids have been defined as "catch-up" content. The ilvl for them has been no higher than 10 lvls of the same 8 man raid cycle. The sole purpose for those having a "need" option is for those who actually need that gear, regardless of substats, they're aiming for ilvl gains.

Outside of that, its all glamour purposes, hence why my personal view is that they removed the need option so everyone can gun for the Vaan outfit. They should've just released tokens to exchange for it as a lvl 1 all version, like the rest of the Main hero outfits from the past; or a veteran reward/achievement exchange. Removing "need" makes eureka gear or 8 main raid gear easier to obtain with much less RNG and any feasibility that Alliance raids had was thrown out the window. So, putting the bias card on the table is not only narrow-sighted, it exacerbates the problem.

24's are at their core are catch up tools which in a way supports the greed all option since it allows for those with multiple alts to gear them up easier, even then greed all is still does a poor job. If catch up is main purpose behind 24's allowing a player to use a token to get the piece of gear they "need" bypasses the need for multiple with a token system one simply need to pass one RNG check, realistically two since you need to kill the boss. The other systems had a bias / favor towards certain factors. Old system was role, need system is those with more then level leveled job. Not sure how making it everyone has to pass a set number of RNG checks at an equal chance to get the item that one may "need" either it be for glam or catch up. Though having two tokens drop one to be traded in for at level gear and the other for glam would be interesting.