4.25 and beyond

[Musashidon]

To be fair, the game is succeeding in a general way.

there is no winning, everyone has their idea of what the game should be.

some people want to grind for the same gear for years on end or others want the gear to last 1 year instead of 6 months either way its a tread mill they just want it to be the tread mill they want.

they are the people you can't make happy. like the idea that fates aren't cool unless failing one makes the npc's of a area go away so you can't do a quest unless a group of people decide to be nice and fix the area for you since one person wouldn't be enough to beat the fate alone to win it back.


it doesn't matter if this game is succeeding or not they want it thier way or no way.

So, no, I'm not blaming the game either. I'm blaming the company designing it. They're taking a title that I desperately want to see succeed - the successor to my favourite MMO ever (FFXI), one that shaped well over five years of my life - and ruthlessly transforming it into a high-budget version of a F2P cell phone game. And it really pisses me off to see.

this qoute sums up what i mean perfectly i guess this game isn't succeeding to them when the game never dips under 500k players which is the second highest mmorpg community besides wow.


this game has been SO successful that yoshi p has now gotten TWO...TWO promotions out of it.

[Joe777]

there is no winning, everyone has their idea of what the game should be.

some people want to grind for the same gear for years on end or others want the gear to last 1 year instead of 6 months either way its a tread mill they just want it to be the tread mill they want.

they are the people you can't make happy. like the idea that fates aren't cool unless failing one makes the npc's of a area go away so you can't do a quest unless a group of people decide to be nice and fix the area for you since one person wouldn't be enough to beat the fate alone to win it back.


it doesn't matter if this game is succeeding or not they want it thier way or no way.

They are still entitled to their opinion of course, everyone is. However, SE will indeed attempt the road that caters to an average playerbase, with said average depending on both feedback and observation. It is indeed impossible to please every player. That goes for every game out there though.

[Musashidon]

They are still entitled to their opinion of course, everyone is. However, SE will indeed attempt the road that caters to an average playerbase, with said average depending on both feedback and observation. It is indeed impossible to please every player. That goes for every game out there though.

i am not saying people can't have opinions but i don't go ask for a game to be changed almost completely due to me like games that play differently.

ff14 is catered to players who can only play a few hours a day and few days a week, but people want it to cater to players who play 5 hours everyday.
while i hope one day you will get the game of your dreams it will never be ff14, it has constant grind treadmill because it caters to the players who like that sort of thing.

It isn't succeeding to me, no.

Profit and quality are two entirely different things. Most of the time, when players are bringing up the idea of wanting to succeed in the context of FFXIV being stale / boring, it's in the context of quality, not profit. There are plenty of examples of half-arsed games that proved to be profitable - sometimes even wildly so. The Call of Duty franchise offers several examples just on its own. I want FFXIV to succeed as a game. My concern is never for a company's bottom line; worrying about that is the job of the publisher and the developer. My concern is for my general enjoyment, and the enjoyment of my friends, who are logging on less and less these days. If a company cannot deliver that with a certain title, regardless of the rationale, than the title has failed for me as a gamer.

Also, being second-highest compared to WoW really shouldn't be viewed as successful in the year 2018. World of Warcraft dwarfs the number of subscribers for FFXIV, and it does so despite being roughly a decade-and-a-half old. That's sad, and it's a massive indictment of any company in the MMO space that isn't creating an intentionally niche title - SE first and foremost, given their shameless efforts to ape WoW early and often.

you are in no way required to like ff14 or think it is a great game i don't wanna seem like i am saying you have to.

what i am saying is FF14 isn't trying to be the game you want, and its succeeding very very very well despite not being what you want, it won't change any time soon and anything they add that sounds like something you would like would be butchered to cater to the casual full time life player who can't play well or often ruining it for you.

now nothing compared to wow is succeeding they have years of nostalgia built that every expansion will give them 10 million players the first month from now on but no other game has ever come close to toping wow either so that is why it's a monumental feat because being second place is a big deal when most mmorpg's can't even touch 500k when we never go below.

The next expansion will definitely decide this game's fate, and I fear they won't change much up at all.

this is what i mean people said this for heavenward also, and i hate sounding so terrible to say it but they aren't changing anything they even said it saying we want to be predictable we want you to feel like you can leave the game and come back whenever and it's because this formula is working it's making them money and getting them players sure there are the expansion release players only or the patch release players only but it's working and people are liking it, yes there are people who don't but they aren't making a big enough impact to get SE to stop.

[Vhailor]

you are in no way required to like ff14 or think it is a great game i don't wanna seem like i am saying you have to.

what i am saying is FF14 isn't trying to be the game you want, and its succeeding very very very well despite not being what you want, it won't change any time soon and anything they add that sounds like something you would like would be butchered to cater to the casual full time life player who can't play well or often ruining it for you.

I think this highlights well a key point that most people don't seem to understand: I don't accept this current state of the game, will be vocal about wanting it to change, and do not want to yet resign myself to the idea that SE's flagship MMO (in the past FFXI, currently FFXIV) will be an ongoing pile of mediocrity. I think a lot of people fall into this group. We're not going to simply lie down and 'accept' SE's current vision for FFXIV. It's changed once before, and it can change again.

The whole argument about butchering content for 'casual' players is also nonsense. There are two distinct groups of people you referred to: those who don't play well, and those who can't play often. For the former, most of the FFXI content I listed - Assault, Nyzul Isle, Abyssea, Campaigns, maybe Besieged - none of that content was remotely as difficult as The Royal Menagerie. Battle content that feels different to what came before it, that offers a different experience, does not intrinsically require increased difficulty. It simply requires SE to be creative, something which they appear to be utterly incapable of these days. And for the people who cannot play often, the pace of content development in the game is already well beyond their playtime. So why does it all need to be focused on them, or even mostly? I got slammed with work a month ago, as an example; I was playing from my laptop maybe 30 minutes a night to unwind before the grind continued. I picked up Triple Triad. TT alone could have occupied me for a few months at a low play rate, and that's not even considering Crafting, Gathering, Gold Saucer mini-games, casual Tomestone farming, Vistas, Housing, and, oh yes, the entire main storyline. Where, exactly, does a problem arise if SE creates content that actually has some variety to it?

This argument about "oh but the casual players" needs to be killed off, buried in a shallow grave, and the earth around it salted. It is complete and utter nonsense, and effectively amounts to a giant excuse of SE's inability to design creative, fun, fresh-feeling content. I consider myself a casual player. I don't raid, I don't bother with the insane grinds, I don't level every job, I don't play 10 hours a day. And it really bothers me when 'casual' content is equated with 'shit' content.

[Arcari]

At least SE hasn't tried to sell us lootboxes yet!

But on a serious note, I'd like to echo many of the sentiments in this discussion. I have been an active player since the beta; my sub hasn't dropped once. As much as I want to continue to support this game, even I have to admit just how stale it's become. I'm truly hoping Eureka will be able to give me even the slightest reason to stick around. Otherwise, I'll be making someone happy with a Shirogane Plot 38...

[Marcellus_Cassius]

Battle content that feels different to what came before it, that offers a different experience, does not intrinsically require increased difficulty.

I can't disagree with that Ayer2015. Also I think Vhailor brings up a good point.

[AmemeAmeklin]

Background on me: I'm still something of a newbie to FFXIV but I come from playing EverQuest (waaaay back when, first handful of expansions), where you absolutely have to cooperate with others to get most stuff done.

From what I've seen, the elite hunts are the most MMO experience in this game so far. You find friends at these hunts, get invited to the linkshells, show up, kill, and move on to the next one where you see the same people and get to know them. A close second is just hanging out at the aetheryte plazas for the main city-states and willingly interacting with other players.

Duty Finder is all well and good when trying to get things like the MSQ or tomestones, but it's hard to start cross-server friendships! I have macros to push, no time to chat!!

I think I'd be interested in more puzzle-like mechanics - like Qarn, but less rage-inducing bosses (do we have to have bosses?!). I'd also like more quests that don't spell out where to go every single time. Of course, I basically grew up with quests that had to be solved, completely sans help from maps and quest indicators. Didn't even know which NPCs had quests - you had to hail them all to see if they said anything interesting. Devs put in fun easter eggs, too: little silly interactions, like this one NPC on the docks in EverQuest who responded to players who told her "I love you" with something along the lines of "We'd make a fine couple".

I feel like the sylphs should dance with you if you ever emote /dance to them, and Haurchefant should get excited if you tell him you love him, and Lyse should /box with you if you do it to her, etc.

[Vhailor]

this qoute sums up what i mean perfectly i guess this game isn't succeeding to them when the game never dips under 500k players which is the second highest mmorpg community besides wow.

It isn't succeeding to me, no.

Profit and quality are two entirely different things. Most of the time, when players are bringing up the idea of wanting to succeed in the context of FFXIV being stale / boring, it's in the context of quality, not profit. There are plenty of examples of half-arsed games that proved to be profitable - sometimes even wildly so. The Call of Duty franchise offers several examples just on its own. I want FFXIV to succeed as a game. My concern is never for a company's bottom line; worrying about that is the job of the publisher and the developer. My concern is for my general enjoyment, and the enjoyment of my friends, who are logging on less and less these days. If a company cannot deliver that with a certain title, regardless of the rationale, than the title has failed for me as a gamer.

Also, being second-highest compared to WoW really shouldn't be viewed as successful in the year 2018. World of Warcraft dwarfs the number of subscribers for FFXIV, and it does so despite being roughly a decade-and-a-half old. That's sad, and it's a massive indictment of any company in the MMO space that isn't creating an intentionally niche title - SE first and foremost, given their shameless efforts to ape WoW early and often.

[Joe777]

It isn't succeeding to me, no.

Profit and quality are two entirely different things. Most of the time, when players are bringing up the idea of wanting to succeed in the context of FFXIV being stale / boring, it's in the context of quality, not profit. There are plenty of examples of half-arsed games that proved to be profitable - sometimes even wildly so. The Call of Duty franchise offers several examples just on its own. I want FFXIV to succeed as a game. My concern is never for a company's bottom line; worrying about that is the job of the publisher and the developer. My concern is for my general enjoyment, and the enjoyment of my friends, who are logging on less and less these days. If a company cannot deliver that with a certain title, regardless of the rationale, than the title has failed for me as a gamer.

Also, being second-highest compared to WoW really shouldn't be viewed as successful in the year 2018. World of Warcraft dwarfs the number of subscribers for FFXIV, and it does so despite being roughly a decade-and-a-half old. That's sad, and it's a massive indictment of any company in the MMO space that isn't creating an intentionally niche title - SE first and foremost, given their shameless efforts to ape WoW early and often.

Personally I couldn't care less how another MMO is doing, nor do I have a reason to compare MMOs to each other. Like you though there are MMOs I do not enjoy due to blunders on the company's part, or due to the company itself, despite how well the game may or may not be doing or how many players it has.

[Darrcyphfeid]

this qoute sums up what i mean perfectly i guess this game isn't succeeding to them when the game never dips under 500k players which is the second highest mmorpg community besides wow.

I know you think this is a good and compelling point, but it's not. This is a (dubious) measurement of the game's population ranging from lv35 through lv70, and is by its nature reactionary. If you only look at the current number of players you don't see and can't plan for problems until it's already significantly affecting your bottom line. In a world where subscription-based MMOs are largely a relic of the past, in a market where "Games as a Service" is quickly becoming the norm outside the constraints of the MMO genre, being reactionary is an incredibly dangerous prospect.

Square has to be constantly proactive, and this is where community feedback is vital. Very little that has transpired since the launch of Stormblood has indicated that they're taking (or, truly, even hearing - see: the Urgamax situation) and incorporating that feedback, however, and meanwhile other cracks in the game's foundation are being revealed (see: Main Scenario Roulette, widespread connectivity issues, repeat of the solo instance failure, any number of "server limitation" excuses). The sky isn't falling, necessarily, but ignoring things because "the game is doing well right this moment" is very shortsighted. I haven't seen positive word-of-mouth about the game beyond here and r/FFXIV in nearly a year, whereas back in ARR and (early) HW I'd see people saying good things on a regular basis on multiple websites that I still frequent. That in and of itself is a problem.

this game has been SO successful that yoshi p has now gotten TWO...TWO promotions out of it.

The team did a good job developing and marketing the relaunch of XIV with ARR, but that has no actual bearing on their ability to continue making it successful by any standard in any way. Again, this is reactionary.