4.25 and beyond

[Joe777]

Given a choice of good content to play with other people and boring content to play with other people, I would prefer to ask for the good one. I don't see why you think it's a bad thing for people to voice their concerns about the state of the game. It's a good thing for the devs to hear what their players are thinking, and it's the obligation of a consumer to demand a better product if it isn't meeting their needs; and failing that, to take there money elsewhere. This thread is step 1. SE failing to listen leads to step 2.

All people say though is the game is boring and/or stale. No one even suggests ways to make it less boring and/or stale. Furthermore, SE does try different things, and yet people still say its boring and/or stale. So what exactly do those saying all of this want SE to do? That's what I don't see every time people complain like this. I burn out too, I've taken a break from the game twice now, but I don't find the game itself boring and/or stale, I just don't feel like playing it and/or wanna play something else, but I don't blame the game for that.

[MomomiMomi]

All people say though is the game is boring and/or stale. No one even suggests ways to make it less boring and/or stale. Furthermore, SE does try different things, and yet people still say its boring and/or stale.

Yes, I admit they've tried. We had diadem. We all know how that went. Trying is good; failing is not. Diadem was a near total flop, and then they adjusted it and turned it into a total flop. It shouldn't be a surprise that people are worried about Eureka, which sounds like it could be at least kind of similar to Diadem.

[Joe777]

Yes, I admit they've tried. We had diadem. We all know how that went. Trying is good; failing is not. Diadem was a near total flop, and then they adjusted it and turned it into a total flop. It shouldn't be a surprise that people are worried about Eureka, which sounds like it could be at least kind of similar to Diadem.

In essence yes it does sound similar, but they're adding twists to it to try to make it more interesting.

[Vhailor]

All people say though is the game is boring and/or stale. No one even suggests ways to make it less boring and/or stale. Furthermore, SE does try different things, and yet people still say its boring and/or stale. So what exactly do those saying all of this want SE to do? That's what I don't see every time people complain like this. I burn out too, I've taken a break from the game twice now, but I don't find the game itself boring and/or stale, I just don't feel like playing it and/or wanna play something else, but I don't blame the game for that.

People suggest things all the time. SE simply ignores them.

Speaking personally, I want content with depth. I want content with some longevity. I want content that feels different from normal PvE, offers a solid mid-range grind (not one that's trivial, and not one that's face-meltingly long), keeps me reasonably engaged, is reasonably difficult, and actually gives me a reason to enjoy playing my combat jobs again. There are examples of this type of content all over the place, including many from FFXI: Assault, Nyzul Isle, Campaigns (albeit with a better implementation), Abyssea. For Raiders, where is content resembling {sea} or {sky}? Where is the Dynamis, where is the Einherjar, where is the Salvage? It's not like SE hasn't done this before.

Instead, we get... the same stuff. Four-person dungeons that are rapidly over-geared and universally easy after a couple of weeks, if that. Eight-person Trials. Eight-person Raids that are essentially just a series of boss fights. And the occasional Alliance Raid. That's it, barring a few hideously-designed monstrosities like Diadem. And, even in Diadem, the game played the exact same way it always did. About the only exceptions I can think of, the only content that felt a bit different, was Palace of the Dead and the Deep Dungeon / Timeworn Map system. That's it, despite FFXIV ARR being around for about 4.5 years now. That's pathetic.

I'd be a lot more forgiving if SE would just show they're trying, but they aren't. They aren't even aiming high. They're just going through the motions, and it's painfully obvious to anyone who has played a well-supported MMO backed by a creative team (FFXI for most of its lifespan was a great example). Hell, in some ways, I wish they'd bring the 1.0 team back; they failed spectacularly in many ways, but at least you could see they were trying to push the envelope.

So, no, I'm not blaming the game either. I'm blaming the company designing it. They're taking a title that I desperately want to see succeed - the successor to my favourite MMO ever (FFXI), one that shaped well over five years of my life - and ruthlessly transforming it into a high-budget version of a F2P cell phone game. And it really pisses me off to see.

[Joe777]

People suggest things all the time. SE simply ignores them.

Speaking personally, I want content with depth. I want content with some longevity. I want content that feels different from normal PvE, offers a solid mid-range grind (not one that's trivial, and not one that's face-meltingly long), keeps me reasonably engaged, is reasonably difficult, and actually gives me a reason to enjoy playing my combat jobs again. There are examples of this type of content all over the place, including many from FFXI: Assault, Nyzul Isle, Campaigns (albeit with a better implementation), Abyssea. For Raiders, where is content resembling {sea} or {sky}? Where is the Dynamis, where is the Einherjar, where is the Salvage? It's not like SE hasn't done this before.

Instead, we get... the same stuff. Four-person dungeons that are rapidly over-geared and universally easy after a couple of weeks, if that. Eight-person Trials. Eight-person Raids that are essentially just a series of boss fights. And the occasional Alliance Raid. That's it, barring a few hideously-designed monstrosities like Diadem. And, even in Diadem, the game played the exact same way it always did. About the only exceptions I can think of, the only content that felt a bit different, was Palace of the Dead and the Deep Dungeon / Timeworn Map system. That's it, despite FFXIV ARR being around for about 4.5 years now. That's pathetic.

I'd be a lot more forgiving if SE would just show they're trying, but they aren't. They aren't even aiming high. They're just going through the motions, and it's painfully obvious to anyone who has played a well-supported MMO backed by a creative team (FFXI for most of its lifespan was a great example). Hell, in some ways, I wish they'd bring the 1.0 team back; they failed spectacularly in many ways, but at least you could see they were trying to push the envelope.

So, no, I'm not blaming the game either. I'm blaming the company designing it. They're taking a title that I desperately want to see succeed - the successor to my favourite MMO ever (FFXI), one that shaped well over five years of my life - and ruthlessly transforming it into a high-budget version of a F2P cell phone game. And it really pisses me off to see.

To be fair, the game is succeeding in a general way.

There's half a dozen threads on this forum alone with suggestions on how to change things or features to implement every day, ranging from simple QoL tweaks to structural changes to break the monotony and bring in something fresh and new. If you never see any of that, I wouldn't be surprised if you worked for SE yourself. The problem is most of these ideas are outright ignored, or on the off-chance they are brought to the devs' attention it's denied anyway because it doesn't fit into whatever vision they have for the game.

Furthermore, as some have already mentioned, one of the purposes of the forums here is feedback. Given that we're paying for this game, it's entirely within reason to voice our opinions if we're unsatisfied with the game in some way. Saying 'if you don't like it, it's time for you to move on' is pretty stupid, and if that's your mindset you need to get off your high horse. I love this game just as much as the next person. I've been here for 4 and a half years, I'm not going to up and leave without a word if I'm bored. Too much time and effort invested to just drop it like it's hot.

I meant when people make these threads they usually just say the game is boring/stale without saying too much on ways that could make it feel less that way for them. Ever since I mentioned this in this thread people have been throwing around ideas left and right.

SE does see our posts, they just don't acknowledge them immediately.

[Musashidon]

To be fair, the game is succeeding in a general way.

there is no winning, everyone has their idea of what the game should be.

some people want to grind for the same gear for years on end or others want the gear to last 1 year instead of 6 months either way its a tread mill they just want it to be the tread mill they want.

they are the people you can't make happy. like the idea that fates aren't cool unless failing one makes the npc's of a area go away so you can't do a quest unless a group of people decide to be nice and fix the area for you since one person wouldn't be enough to beat the fate alone to win it back.


it doesn't matter if this game is succeeding or not they want it thier way or no way.

So, no, I'm not blaming the game either. I'm blaming the company designing it. They're taking a title that I desperately want to see succeed - the successor to my favourite MMO ever (FFXI), one that shaped well over five years of my life - and ruthlessly transforming it into a high-budget version of a F2P cell phone game. And it really pisses me off to see.

this qoute sums up what i mean perfectly i guess this game isn't succeeding to them when the game never dips under 500k players which is the second highest mmorpg community besides wow.


this game has been SO successful that yoshi p has now gotten TWO...TWO promotions out of it.

[Joe777]

there is no winning, everyone has their idea of what the game should be.

some people want to grind for the same gear for years on end or others want the gear to last 1 year instead of 6 months either way its a tread mill they just want it to be the tread mill they want.

they are the people you can't make happy. like the idea that fates aren't cool unless failing one makes the npc's of a area go away so you can't do a quest unless a group of people decide to be nice and fix the area for you since one person wouldn't be enough to beat the fate alone to win it back.


it doesn't matter if this game is succeeding or not they want it thier way or no way.

They are still entitled to their opinion of course, everyone is. However, SE will indeed attempt the road that caters to an average playerbase, with said average depending on both feedback and observation. It is indeed impossible to please every player. That goes for every game out there though.

[Musashidon]

They are still entitled to their opinion of course, everyone is. However, SE will indeed attempt the road that caters to an average playerbase, with said average depending on both feedback and observation. It is indeed impossible to please every player. That goes for every game out there though.

i am not saying people can't have opinions but i don't go ask for a game to be changed almost completely due to me like games that play differently.

ff14 is catered to players who can only play a few hours a day and few days a week, but people want it to cater to players who play 5 hours everyday.
while i hope one day you will get the game of your dreams it will never be ff14, it has constant grind treadmill because it caters to the players who like that sort of thing.

It isn't succeeding to me, no.

Profit and quality are two entirely different things. Most of the time, when players are bringing up the idea of wanting to succeed in the context of FFXIV being stale / boring, it's in the context of quality, not profit. There are plenty of examples of half-arsed games that proved to be profitable - sometimes even wildly so. The Call of Duty franchise offers several examples just on its own. I want FFXIV to succeed as a game. My concern is never for a company's bottom line; worrying about that is the job of the publisher and the developer. My concern is for my general enjoyment, and the enjoyment of my friends, who are logging on less and less these days. If a company cannot deliver that with a certain title, regardless of the rationale, than the title has failed for me as a gamer.

Also, being second-highest compared to WoW really shouldn't be viewed as successful in the year 2018. World of Warcraft dwarfs the number of subscribers for FFXIV, and it does so despite being roughly a decade-and-a-half old. That's sad, and it's a massive indictment of any company in the MMO space that isn't creating an intentionally niche title - SE first and foremost, given their shameless efforts to ape WoW early and often.

you are in no way required to like ff14 or think it is a great game i don't wanna seem like i am saying you have to.

what i am saying is FF14 isn't trying to be the game you want, and its succeeding very very very well despite not being what you want, it won't change any time soon and anything they add that sounds like something you would like would be butchered to cater to the casual full time life player who can't play well or often ruining it for you.

now nothing compared to wow is succeeding they have years of nostalgia built that every expansion will give them 10 million players the first month from now on but no other game has ever come close to toping wow either so that is why it's a monumental feat because being second place is a big deal when most mmorpg's can't even touch 500k when we never go below.

The next expansion will definitely decide this game's fate, and I fear they won't change much up at all.

this is what i mean people said this for heavenward also, and i hate sounding so terrible to say it but they aren't changing anything they even said it saying we want to be predictable we want you to feel like you can leave the game and come back whenever and it's because this formula is working it's making them money and getting them players sure there are the expansion release players only or the patch release players only but it's working and people are liking it, yes there are people who don't but they aren't making a big enough impact to get SE to stop.

[Vhailor]

you are in no way required to like ff14 or think it is a great game i don't wanna seem like i am saying you have to.

what i am saying is FF14 isn't trying to be the game you want, and its succeeding very very very well despite not being what you want, it won't change any time soon and anything they add that sounds like something you would like would be butchered to cater to the casual full time life player who can't play well or often ruining it for you.

I think this highlights well a key point that most people don't seem to understand: I don't accept this current state of the game, will be vocal about wanting it to change, and do not want to yet resign myself to the idea that SE's flagship MMO (in the past FFXI, currently FFXIV) will be an ongoing pile of mediocrity. I think a lot of people fall into this group. We're not going to simply lie down and 'accept' SE's current vision for FFXIV. It's changed once before, and it can change again.

The whole argument about butchering content for 'casual' players is also nonsense. There are two distinct groups of people you referred to: those who don't play well, and those who can't play often. For the former, most of the FFXI content I listed - Assault, Nyzul Isle, Abyssea, Campaigns, maybe Besieged - none of that content was remotely as difficult as The Royal Menagerie. Battle content that feels different to what came before it, that offers a different experience, does not intrinsically require increased difficulty. It simply requires SE to be creative, something which they appear to be utterly incapable of these days. And for the people who cannot play often, the pace of content development in the game is already well beyond their playtime. So why does it all need to be focused on them, or even mostly? I got slammed with work a month ago, as an example; I was playing from my laptop maybe 30 minutes a night to unwind before the grind continued. I picked up Triple Triad. TT alone could have occupied me for a few months at a low play rate, and that's not even considering Crafting, Gathering, Gold Saucer mini-games, casual Tomestone farming, Vistas, Housing, and, oh yes, the entire main storyline. Where, exactly, does a problem arise if SE creates content that actually has some variety to it?

This argument about "oh but the casual players" needs to be killed off, buried in a shallow grave, and the earth around it salted. It is complete and utter nonsense, and effectively amounts to a giant excuse of SE's inability to design creative, fun, fresh-feeling content. I consider myself a casual player. I don't raid, I don't bother with the insane grinds, I don't level every job, I don't play 10 hours a day. And it really bothers me when 'casual' content is equated with 'shit' content.

[Vhailor]

this qoute sums up what i mean perfectly i guess this game isn't succeeding to them when the game never dips under 500k players which is the second highest mmorpg community besides wow.

It isn't succeeding to me, no.

Profit and quality are two entirely different things. Most of the time, when players are bringing up the idea of wanting to succeed in the context of FFXIV being stale / boring, it's in the context of quality, not profit. There are plenty of examples of half-arsed games that proved to be profitable - sometimes even wildly so. The Call of Duty franchise offers several examples just on its own. I want FFXIV to succeed as a game. My concern is never for a company's bottom line; worrying about that is the job of the publisher and the developer. My concern is for my general enjoyment, and the enjoyment of my friends, who are logging on less and less these days. If a company cannot deliver that with a certain title, regardless of the rationale, than the title has failed for me as a gamer.

Also, being second-highest compared to WoW really shouldn't be viewed as successful in the year 2018. World of Warcraft dwarfs the number of subscribers for FFXIV, and it does so despite being roughly a decade-and-a-half old. That's sad, and it's a massive indictment of any company in the MMO space that isn't creating an intentionally niche title - SE first and foremost, given their shameless efforts to ape WoW early and often.