Why the hate with endgame fights?

[miraidensetsu]

Instant death mechanics are the laziest way to make something "hard."

No one likes instant death in any game.

Ah... I hate those mechanics with all my mighty. Specially those "pray" mechanics (those who the boss selects one random player from the group to keep him hostage without attacking ang gives the party some time to destroy the bubble or the prey will die). When trying solo some boss with that, it gives the pray status to the only player out there and he can't attack the bubble. And thus, the "party" wipes. For solo players that's in fact an early enrage timer.

And yes, I have fun soloing things.

[KaldeaSahaline]

The hate has always been there.It came back in ARR when people who took raiding too seriously in other games migrated to FF14 and tried to dictate their ways on the entire FF community.

Back with Titan HM you had constant rages and people flaming each other.

Humor me, is it just as possible that maybe Titan HM was the first piece of content in the game that required a modicum of reflexes/skill and as such caused a divide between skilled/unskilled players? Something completely independent of "playerbase migration woes" as it were.

Warriors got so much hate at this time too. It was basically pld or gfto.

So to be clear, you are assuming that WARs got hate back in early ARR because players who "take games too seriously" migrated into FF14 from other games? Not for ANY other reason? None at all?

Thornmarch extreme was also very toxic.As was Steps of Faith.List goes on and on.

Explain to me why you believe SoF and Thornmarch EX were "very toxic". Would you agree that my analysis of Titan HM could be copy pasted to here and still be applicable?

The instant dead mechanics are lazy and idiotic, thats not making it difficult for the players who know how to make it, but makes it impossible to do for the ones who do it for the first time, and here is the place where the hate is placed at. Are there really no other ways to do activities more interesting and diverse than dropping here and there field mines, which kills everybody flat in instant?
Terrible design.

I'm a fairly skilled player. I still died to Hashmal my first time. A pillar fell and landed on me instantly killing me. It was day 1 and it was a fresh run for nearly everyone.

I was expecting telegraphs and did not get one. When I died to it, instead of whining or alt-tabbing or watching netflix, I took 20s to realize how/why I died. I have never been hit by one again. If I was to make a bet, 50%+ of the lower skilled playerbase would not ask a question if they did not understand the mechanic that killed them, nor would they place any effort into realizing why they died.

Now that said, the alternative would be a pillar simply does x% of HP damage. That would mean that people would ignore it and just assume healers will cover it, and because there are nearly no consequences for failing the mechanic, the lowerskilled playerbase would not analyze nor learn the mechanic.

IMO.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

i find people who say git gud never really faced difficult content in the first place; it was easy for them, and they can't get how it isn't easy for everyone else. When you actually have hard content, you're too worried with getting it done rather than obsessing over others, and you know how frustrating it is for you, so the last thing you want to do is force others to do it. It took all my focus and concentration to heal 3.0 pvp, for example; wtf would i rage about others not being good at it, when it was so frustrating and wearying? Its people who go in, and ace it, and then ace it so much they can farm the "hard" content nonstop for hours, that always say git gud, but that doesn't seem hard to me.

It wasn't always "easy" for us. Good raiders are not born with innate skill. Once upon a time, we were all the ones getting told "git gud" for our silly fuck ups. The difference is instead of complaining, we actually got good. So when someone sneaks into a farm party they have no business being in, people get frustrated. You act like raiders have no patience yet many do. What drives many of us nuts is when we attempt to explain something or straight up label our PFs with "weekly clears please know all mechanics." We get chastised as being "elitists." I like to think myself a decent player. Despite getting to third phase on DRK in Shinryu, I was still joining first phase learning parties. You know why? Because I wanted more experience in a role I don't normally play. So in your hypothetical example, why couldn't that person who still finds the content hard, keep hopping into learning parties?

Everyone can "git gud." All it takes is effort and a willingness to improve.

[Metalwrath]

Warriors inferior defense to paladins was being blamed for not clearing Titan Hardmode.At the time Titan hard mode was needed to get +1 relic to access coil.A lot of time people were unwilling to try and clear Titan hm with a Warrior.This also was the situation with coil which led to the subsequent buffs Warrior got as Warrior players for a large part were being deliberatly excluded from in game content.
There were parties that proved it could be done with Warriors but they were very few.
Now judging by your join date you weren't here when it occurred and would joined after Warrior got buffed strongly as a result of what happened over Titan and coil.

As for the other examples,they are the result of a trend that was created in ARR.

[Deceptus]

Humor me, is it just as possible that maybe Titan HM was the first piece of content in the game that required a modicum of reflexes/skill and as such caused a divide between skilled/unskilled players? Something completely independent of "playerbase migration woes" as it were.

Titan HM's biggest issue was latency.

that's the funniest one. I'm not an endgame tank by a long shot and I was able to tank 99 runs over a week with only PUGs. it was pretty fun as a mid-skill tank but it was not punishing AT ALL for any mistakes..

Until one of the DPS (or OT) isn't watching their aggro and gets a death cone on the entire raid. Seen it more than once.

[Arrius]

Instant death mechanics are the laziest way to make something "hard."

No one likes instant death in any game.

Its by far the easiest way to make people get to pay attention and have their stuff sorted out, though.
When you make them all non-fatal, then players would ignore the mechanics and just eat the damage instead of attempting to avoid it.

[Metalwrath]

Titan HM's biggest issue was latency.



Until one of the DPS (or OT) isn't watching their aggro and gets a death cone on the entire raid. Seen it more than once.

A lot of people tried to blame latency on Landslide but i dont think it was ever proved to be true.There was plenty of people complaining about peoples gear and dps on heart phase and there was many who also blamed warriors if they were tanking for their classes survivability.

[Sorciechan]

A lot of people tried to blame latency on Landslide but i dont think it was ever proved to be true.There was plenty of people complaining about peoples gear and dps on heart phase and there was many who also blamed warriors if they were tanking for their classes survivability.

Erm, lol no one just admitted that they were dying too much to the landslides (or, to a lesser extent, the earth pools)?

[KaldeaSahaline]

Warriors inferior defense to paladins was being blamed for not clearing Titan Hardmode.At the time Titan hard mode was needed to get +1 relic to access coil.A lot of time people were unwilling to try and clear Titan hm with a Warrior.This also was the situation with coil which led to the subsequent buffs Warrior got as Warrior players for a large part were being deliberatly excluded from in game content.
There were parties that proved it could be done with Warriors but they were very few.
Now judging by your join date you weren't here when it occurred and would joined after Warrior got buffed strongly as a result of what happened over Titan and coil.

As for the other examples,they are the result of a trend that was created in ARR.

Is there any reason why you ignored the other questions I asked you? You explicitly stated that the community became more "hateful" as a result of players migrating to ARR from other MMO's. I offered counter-arguments to this statement that you ignored.

Humor me, is it just as possible that maybe Titan HM was the first piece of content in the game that required a modicum of reflexes/skill and as such caused a divide between skilled/unskilled players?

Explain to me why you believe SoF and Thornmarch EX were "very toxic".

Also FYI - I joined FF14 a little less than a month before 2.1 dropped, which true, excluded most of the WAR hate train, but I am well versed in it.

I want you to defend this viewpoint logically. Cite examples and insight that lend weight to your argument. Refrain from emotion and bias if at all possible.

A lot of people tried to blame latency on Landslide but i dont think it was ever proved to be true.There was plenty of people complaining about peoples gear and dps on heart phase and there was many who also blamed warriors if they were tanking for their classes survivability.

Bad players being bad players. Quite literally nothing more, nothing less IMO.

[Sigiria]

A lot of people tried to blame latency on Landslide but i dont think it was ever proved to be true.There was plenty of people complaining about peoples gear and dps on heart phase and there was many who also blamed warriors if they were tanking for their classes survivability.

There was a latency issue in the game when it started. There still is actually, Exdeath's White Hole petrifying half of the party because everyone wasn't full life more than 3 seconds before the end of the cast come to mind.
But thanks to the heavy choreographed nature of the fights you just learn to cope with it and react preemptively.