Why the hate with endgame fights?

[Bobs]

Instant death mechanics are the laziest way to make something "hard."

No one likes instant death in any game.

[KaivaC]

snip

OP is here. Here's the thing about when I make threads...I don't usually make threads unless I see a certain topic quite a bit. I'm not just talking about once or twice...if I can recount a dozen times in a certain time frame when I've seen a particular topic come up (endgame being the topic here), I will more than likely make a topic of it. I've seen it very often with Hashmal, so I made a thread about that. I've seen the thing with endgame in many of the parser threads I've responded to, as well as many other topics here in the forums over the last few months, as well as discussions as reddit. Don't get my words twisted into me suggesting that all players need to enjoy this content. I don't believe I've even made that argument in my responses here. What I've asked is what is the issue with things like 'savage is completely useless', or 'why is Exdeath/Kefka wasted on content like raiding', or even straight up opposition to it'.

As I've admitted in my original post, I'm hitting on a wide range of issues with this subject, and they can vary wildly depending on who chooses to comment here, but I've not suggested that all players SHOULD enjoy endgame.

Besides that, I like having lively discussions because honestly, I enjoy seeing different opinions on things. Of course I will challenge opinions that I don't agree with, but I will change my opinion, as I have done with the WoW topic that I got blasted for a long time ago. It's not so much a strawman as it is me just putting out a very broad subject and opening it up to discussion. I've been doing that quite a bit lately.

[SilverObi]

snips

I understand where you're coming from, it's just from point of view I don't really see it as an actual "thing" I guess? There will always be people saying X content is too hard so please nerf it. And while that always carries the risk of the devs capitulating to such demands, they hold the clear rates themselves so no better than any of us if something is actually too hard for its current place in the current patch. It's just a vocal minority that will always rail when something is seemingly too hard for others (actually themselves). Just look at the occasional cry for the Lakshmi fight in 4.1

The very real fact that flies in the face of my reasoning there is the sad fate of Steps of Faith. Such a fun fight nerfed into braindead oblivion but as it was a bouncer at the gates for an entire expansion, most folks can see why the choice was made (and this might be what happens to MSQ Shinryu much later down the line).

You're totally free to make posts as you wish of course. I hope I didn't present otherwise! I enjoy lively discussion also, maybe I'm just more jaded with the community when it comes to complaints

[Metalwrath]

The hate has always been there.It came back in ARR when people who took raiding too seriously in other games migrated to FF14 and tried to dictate their ways on the entire FF community.
Back with Titan HM you had constant rages and people flaming each other.Warriors got so much hate at this time too.It was basically pld or gfto.
Thornmarch extreme was also very toxic.As was Steps of Faith.List goes on and on.
In heavensward i think it was maybe the most cancerous stage with alex Savage to such an extent with tank dps that SE changed the way vit worked for tanks.
Nidhogg normal and extreme was really hateful too.Still is to be honest.

Best advice i can give you is to do content with FC.

[OMega_ARcane]

As someone who is "ready" to start savage content?

Its not the content I hate.

its the community.

This elitist "git gud" attitude and obsession with parser's really makes me not EVER want to do it.

At least until I get a large enough group of friends who respect one another and don't give a rats ass about perfection...but about having fun in clearing said content.

Just my 2 cents.

This....*Gives a cup of hot tea sits next to you and does a most gentlemanly applaud*

[DrWho2010]

eventually tho "having fun" gives way to "i'm tired of wiping", "i want to clear" and then that leads to drama.

[Nedkel]

Because some dungeons and activities are not balanced like at all and you could even find dungeons on low lvls that are hard to do and understand like the vault, the aery or the keeper of the lake (i swear to god that one).
The inconsistency in balance infuriates me as a tank (especially certain high lvl useful abilities locked, which you know they would be usefull there and here but you cant use it ending up performing badly), so the longer you go the longer it makes you thinking the next dungeon you will join is going to be somewhat "special" in killing and wiping your team for the reason you dont know yet.

The instant dead mechanics are lazy and idiotic, thats not making it difficult for the players who know how to make it, but makes it impossible to do for the ones who do it for the first time, and here is the place where the hate is. Are there really no other ways to do activities more interesting and diverse than dropping here and there field mines, which kills everybody flat in instant?
Terrible design.

[Sorciechan]

^This. I don't think I started experiencing it in ARR until they started adding ilvls, for me. For the record, I don't hate endgame or hard fights (don't like when they are nerfed, ether), but I also don't like ppl making it harder to play a game by bringing the hate. The best fight I remember having was a storymode Garuda. The group I was in died 2 twice, but we were learning. We even discussed how Garuda was fighting and what was and wasn't working. We got her on the third try. The only other time I felt so satisfied was when I was raiding a few years back with a friendly static.

Now? I'm lucky to pass new released content without someone leaving before making it past the first boss. Or, saying someone sucks and spouting nums to prove it. Or, blaming dps for failing a fight, when the real reason was ppl dropping like flies for getting killed to mechanics (cause heaven forbid you stop dpsing to move a few inches).

[Dualgunner]

Spouting numbers to prove it? Whoever's doing that has quite the cojones especially when in ingame logs posting parse numbers to shame them. Sure you're not exaggerating on that onr even a bit?

[Nora_of_Mira]

• Kicked from an FC because I said that Lakshmi EX was disappointing as an EX primal.
  

that's the funniest one. I'm not an endgame tank by a long shot and I was able to tank 99 runs over a week with only PUGs. it was pretty fun as a mid-skill tank but it was not punishing AT ALL for any mistakes. And the stuff I saw in those 100+ PUGs... man oh man there are some interesting folks out there.