Why the hate with endgame fights?

[Deceptus]

Humor me, is it just as possible that maybe Titan HM was the first piece of content in the game that required a modicum of reflexes/skill and as such caused a divide between skilled/unskilled players? Something completely independent of "playerbase migration woes" as it were.

Titan HM's biggest issue was latency.

that's the funniest one. I'm not an endgame tank by a long shot and I was able to tank 99 runs over a week with only PUGs. it was pretty fun as a mid-skill tank but it was not punishing AT ALL for any mistakes..

Until one of the DPS (or OT) isn't watching their aggro and gets a death cone on the entire raid. Seen it more than once.

[Metalwrath]

Titan HM's biggest issue was latency.



Until one of the DPS (or OT) isn't watching their aggro and gets a death cone on the entire raid. Seen it more than once.

A lot of people tried to blame latency on Landslide but i dont think it was ever proved to be true.There was plenty of people complaining about peoples gear and dps on heart phase and there was many who also blamed warriors if they were tanking for their classes survivability.

[Sorciechan]

A lot of people tried to blame latency on Landslide but i dont think it was ever proved to be true.There was plenty of people complaining about peoples gear and dps on heart phase and there was many who also blamed warriors if they were tanking for their classes survivability.

Erm, lol no one just admitted that they were dying too much to the landslides (or, to a lesser extent, the earth pools)?

[Sigiria]

A lot of people tried to blame latency on Landslide but i dont think it was ever proved to be true.There was plenty of people complaining about peoples gear and dps on heart phase and there was many who also blamed warriors if they were tanking for their classes survivability.

There was a latency issue in the game when it started. There still is actually, Exdeath's White Hole petrifying half of the party because everyone wasn't full life more than 3 seconds before the end of the cast come to mind.
But thanks to the heavy choreographed nature of the fights you just learn to cope with it and react preemptively.

[Nora_of_Mira]

Until one of the DPS (or OT) isn't watching their aggro and gets a death cone on the entire raid. Seen it more than once.

now if it was an cone that did x% more damage per person its hitting and always wiped the party, it would be a REAL ex primal.

edit: what was worse imo were the Main tanks that didn't use their aggro combo, leaving just me, the Off tank, and a BLM with hairs width of aggro between us and the boss. Fun times.

[Dualgunner]

Spouting numbers to prove it? Whoever's doing that has quite the cojones especially when in ingame logs posting parse numbers to shame them. Sure you're not exaggerating on that onr even a bit?

[Metalwrath]

Warriors inferior defense to paladins was being blamed for not clearing Titan Hardmode.At the time Titan hard mode was needed to get +1 relic to access coil.A lot of time people were unwilling to try and clear Titan hm with a Warrior.This also was the situation with coil which led to the subsequent buffs Warrior got as Warrior players for a large part were being deliberatly excluded from in game content.
There were parties that proved it could be done with Warriors but they were very few.
Now judging by your join date you weren't here when it occurred and would joined after Warrior got buffed strongly as a result of what happened over Titan and coil.

As for the other examples,they are the result of a trend that was created in ARR.

[KaldeaSahaline]

Warriors inferior defense to paladins was being blamed for not clearing Titan Hardmode.At the time Titan hard mode was needed to get +1 relic to access coil.A lot of time people were unwilling to try and clear Titan hm with a Warrior.This also was the situation with coil which led to the subsequent buffs Warrior got as Warrior players for a large part were being deliberatly excluded from in game content.
There were parties that proved it could be done with Warriors but they were very few.
Now judging by your join date you weren't here when it occurred and would joined after Warrior got buffed strongly as a result of what happened over Titan and coil.

As for the other examples,they are the result of a trend that was created in ARR.

Is there any reason why you ignored the other questions I asked you? You explicitly stated that the community became more "hateful" as a result of players migrating to ARR from other MMO's. I offered counter-arguments to this statement that you ignored.

Humor me, is it just as possible that maybe Titan HM was the first piece of content in the game that required a modicum of reflexes/skill and as such caused a divide between skilled/unskilled players?

Explain to me why you believe SoF and Thornmarch EX were "very toxic".

Also FYI - I joined FF14 a little less than a month before 2.1 dropped, which true, excluded most of the WAR hate train, but I am well versed in it.

I want you to defend this viewpoint logically. Cite examples and insight that lend weight to your argument. Refrain from emotion and bias if at all possible.

A lot of people tried to blame latency on Landslide but i dont think it was ever proved to be true.There was plenty of people complaining about peoples gear and dps on heart phase and there was many who also blamed warriors if they were tanking for their classes survivability.

Bad players being bad players. Quite literally nothing more, nothing less IMO.

[Shurrikhan]

Bad players being bad players. Quite literally nothing more, nothing less IMO.

I actually have to disagree with this last point. Early on, XIV faced even more problems with specific ISPs taking incredibly strange routes to XIV's servers (and only to XIV's servers) that seemed to double-up in penalty in regards to AoE zones. Worse still, one could vary by up to some 150 ping just between different instances of the same fight. Their polling rate (frequency of positional checks) was also merely half what it is now.

During Titan HM and later Ex, I had to count down the mechanics by timelog and leave almost a half second early just to leave my plume with everyone else's without dying to said plumes even if at the far edge of the arena.

There was definitely more to that time than mere excuses, and the sheer range and seeming randomness of one's ping was certainly frustration-inducing.

(In agreement)
The weirdest thing, though, was how willing ARR players seemed willing to take all that on the chin, as long as people were doing what they could (such as my finding a way to fight blind). And when the latency got so bad around peak times for my broadband internet (a regional monopoly, with $40/month between my current tier, sufficient for other MMOs, and the next) that I had to quit my static for one playing during nearer the midday, they were entirely understanding.

Toxicity may have been an occasional thing when subbing for statics with their own, very distinct ways of doing things, or in Ex trial pugs, but on the whole ARR was a comparatively friendly community, from what I've seen of it across 3 servers, and most players who came to check out the game from other MMOs were already present in at least their current portions at that time, if not in greater portion (having since moved on during content lulls).

[Metalwrath]

Is there any reason why you ignored the other questions I asked you? You explicitly stated that the community became more "hateful" as a result of players migrating to ARR from other MMO's. I offered counter-arguments to this statement that you ignored.

Bad players being bad players. Quite literally nothing more, nothing less IMO.

Actually you didnt give any real counter argument.And like i said the trend started with those players which led to the attitude that still exists today.ie being toxic to players over gear/dps parses,failing a mechanic.When people act toxic in this way it starts a trend and then becomes a norm unless something is done about it.Se have tried to address the issue by nerfing content or buffing jobs but this is and always will be the wrong way to approach it.I havent ignored anything you stated.