As a new player that really likes this game ...

[WhiteArchmage]

WHM * or basically combining whm and SMN. But again you killed your own view, right now SMN IS BLM+ !!!! it is given BLM spells -.-

Iiiii'm gonna butt in right here: in FFIII, Evokers could do either a support effect or attack with their Summons, Summoners could only do the attack versions but were more powerful. In IV, Rydia (THE Summoner for the old-school fans) STARTS with White Magic, Black Magic and Summon, but when you get her back, she's lost White Magic and only has Black Magic and Summons; in V, it doesn't really matter since you could switch their 2nd skill (you were better off with Black Magic, though), VI to VIII didn't have a "Summoner" per se and it was only on IX and X where they were White Mages with Summons; in XI (as far as I know) they were TREATED as WHM with Summons but not intended as such. The REAL problem with Summoner SERIES-WIDE (and I agree, why are we even discussing that here?) is its lack of a consistent identity.

The lore doesn't allow for a Summoner the way the playerbase wants it; back when the game came for PS3, the system didn't allow for it (imagine 30 Ifrits or Bahamuts at the same time during a hunt...my boyfriend kept complaining about how EGIS would load while PCs wouldn't in PvP, now imagine if those were Summons taller than a Roegadyn); and their basic mechanics series-wise wouldn't allow it (One of their consistencies is having a looong cast-time to offset the power of Summons, imagine having ALL your spells with the cast time of Summon), so does SMN need reworks so the fans stop complaining about it every month? yes, now can we let this thread die already?

[Jybril]

The lore doesn't allow for a Summoner the way the playerbase wants it...
so does SMN need reworks so the fans stop complaining about it every month? yes, now can we let this thread die already?

Lore shouldn't be the reason why Jobs can't be changed...I don't care about lore if it's going to hinder gameplay.
Every expac, SMN has been a different thing.
ARR: DoT hero with a booger.
HW: Envoker/Invoker.
SB: What SMN should of been.
Our pets, mainly Garuda with the ocassional Ifrit for mobs is there just to be there, it's like SE forgot about them or just don't care anymore.
Rework Lore then if you wanna go that way about it. I only agree SMN is suffering an identity crisis.

[WhiteArchmage]

Lore shouldn't be the reason why Jobs can't be changed...
Rework Lore then if you wanna go that way about it. I only agree SMN is suffering an identity crisis.

I hope you mean retcon in a future x-pac which would be semi-ok, if not for how bad writing (and didn't half of this thread was about how we play FF games for the story?) it would be to have "Summoning Primals is very, very bad! But not for you, Warror of Light! It's not like they drain aether from the area by existing!". Otherwise they'd have to go through ARR and 2 expansions (and retcon 1.0 lore, which they really have avoided doing, with a few exceptions) of voiced cutscenes to rewrite and re-record, at that point, just scrap the job completely...

[Moonlite]

Lore shouldn't be the reason why Jobs can't be changed...I don't care about lore if it's going to hinder gameplay.

Shame on you. Lore trumps all aspects of the game and to think otherwise is blasphemous. It is etched in stone by the dripping blood of all the lost lives of the Calamity.