As a new player that really likes this game ...

[Snow_Princess]

I don't know why you are so determined to pretend this, do you work for blizzard? I played FFXI for over 7 years and yes the FFXI version of smn was better IMO than the FFXIV version, but not so different it's unrecognizable as the same job. All I ever see from you on these forums is putting others down and complaining. Obviously you don't like this game, why are you here?

That IS THE POINT! you are just repeating what I just said or others.

FFXI SMN > Wow warlock or FFXIV SMN
FFXIV SMN = wow clone

Why are you on the forums if you don't want to talk about how to improve the game?

[Zarabeth]

That IS THE POINT! you are just repeating what I just said or others.

FFXI SMN > Wow warlock or FFXIV SMN
FFXIV SMN = wow clone

Why are you on the forums if you don't want to talk about how to improve the game?

Again obviously you don't like this game, why are you here? I'm here because I love the game and I'm just sick of people putting it down on the forums.

[Snow_Princess]

But this has nothing to do with what akaneakki was saying, I was only trying to make it clear what the point was, and explaining how you where derailing it off the point. Now you are completely derailing from the thread, why?

FFXI SMN has nothing to do with akaneakki's point or what akaneakki was saying while you where actually reinforcing the idea.

BTW:
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...5382&tag=forum

Posting content that does not follow the theme of the category or thread.

Explaining someone's point = I should quit FFXIV, yikes. I never even stated my personal option in the last 3 posts (this is the 3rd) of mine here, I was simply rewarding points so you understand them.

Put it simply, when FFXI was made has nothing to do with the point, we are talking about FFXIV SMN how it is not like SMN in any other FF, a game made after wow came out.

[akaneakki]

I quoted what you said "Originally Posted by akaneakki"
It's not a full wow clone, no. However they did copy a lot from them. Smn for example doesnt feel very final fantasy, it's more like wow warlock. Cba to type the rest on phone.
You were the one who brought smn into this not me. Also you didn't read the full post (as i had to edit for space) Sooooooooooo..... try that.

/sigh...

Apparently you never played FFXI, Summoner was awesome. WoW was released 2 years AFTER FFXI. So who was copying whom? Personally I don't see much comparison between warlock and smn, but if there is, well ffxi did it first.

Read what you said, then you read what I said again. FFXI SMN IS NOT LIKE WARLOCK OR FF14 ONE!!!!
Is that hard to get? If warlock and smn from FF11 is the same, please point out the very very similar things. I can list you the ones warlock and FF14 has:
Dot class and a pet, that's it. In FFXI you actually used your summon and his/her spells/abilities, unlike in FF14 your main dps is the dots. You are just saying some weird things, like the part where you said FF11 smn and warlock copied that, if warlock copied FF11 smn it wouldn't been a dot class in the first place, would it? lol

Again obviously you don't like this game, why are you here? I'm here because I love the game and I'm just sick of people putting it down on the forums.

Seriously what's up with this attitude? He doesn't like the game because he's trying to point out something? lol. You still don't get it, FF11 smn is not like warlock and vise versa. FF14 smn is like warlock, case close, you still won't get it and I won't care. Because it seems like when you don't get things you gonna say some bs about people not liking the game etc.

Again obviously you don't like this game, why are you here? I'm here because I love the game and I'm just sick of people putting it down on the forums.

Nice try m8.

[ElHeggunte]

Since we're comparing the three of them, why wouldn't you want SMN to play more like Warlock? Admittedly I know next to nothing about either one of them, but both XIV's SMN and WoW's Warlock look a lot more hands-on with their pets than what XI had. In XI all I ever saw was a whole lot of sitting around or being a glorified healer, only bringing your avatars out once a minute or so to cast a Blood Pact before immediately sending them away again. Sounds dull to me. XI's is more like a "traditional" Final Fantasy Summoner and it also seems traditionally boring since it's gameplay that works better in a singleplayer RPG where you have other characters to manage at the same time rather than a more action-oriented MMO where you're only ever in control of yourself.

But this is from the perspective of someone who never actually used their SMN (I collected the base avatars and Fenrir with my MNK just because I could, left my SMN at lvl1) and only played from launch up until mid-WotG so I may be wrong and/or things may have changed since I quit. In fact, I have a vague recollection that someone on the forums explained the changes to me once, but I can't remember.

[basketofseals]

I'm just going to sit back and asume, but gonna take a guess you never played FF11? FF12 wasn't so bad either, never a was a huge fan of the summon's in FF13 tbh, but I know some people might have liked it.
Anyways, SMN in 14 is dot machine and a nugget like Jybril said, you don't have an actuall Primal with you. FF9 was amazing when it comes to summon story and lore wise as well, I think it was better than FFX, even tho I did and still love FF10!
SMN feels far away from being a SMN in this game. The fact I also hated how the class system turns into job system and we all see how that turned out, they screwed it up. I'm not saying I hate FF14, I still play and like it, but there is so much less Final Fantasy in this game than previous ones..

I only really saw when it was a garbage healing job which became summoner for a single ability about once every three minutes, but I'm going to assume that it changed drastically since release.

DoTs are hardly thecore of SMN right now. It's certainly a part of it, but the big deal is summoning Bahamut. Summons may have previously had a story in pre-X games, but when it came to gameplay they boiled down to a spell with an overly long animation. Obviously this is incredibly subjective, but this is the first time in a long while where it actually feels like summoning. Egis are lame and they could be axed for all I care, but Bahamut really fits the job fantasy for me.

Also saying that Egis are anywhere near WoW demons is just wrong. Egis are DoTs that are tied to a model. Lock pets actually have niches and differing uses depending on spec, encounter, and playstyle.

[Snow_Princess]

Since we're comparing the three of them, why wouldn't you want SMN to play more like Warlock? Admittedly I know next to nothing about either one of them, but both XIV's SMN and WoW's Warlock look a lot more hands-on with their pets than what XI had. In XI all I ever saw was a whole lot of sitting around or being aglorified healer, only bringing your avatars out once a minute or so to cast a Blood Pact before immediately sending them away again. Sounds dull to me. XI's is more like a "traditional" Final Fantasy Summoner and it also seems traditionally boring since it's gameplay that works better in a singleplayer RPG where you have other characters to manage at the same time rather than a more action-oriented MMO where you're only ever in control of yourself.

But this is from the perspective of someone who never actually used their SMN (I collected the base avatars and Fenrir with my MNK just because I could, left my SMN at lvl1) and only played from launch up until mid-WotG so I may be wrong and/or things may have changed since I quit. In fact, I have a vague recollection that someone on the forums explained the changes to me once, but I can't remember.

We are not talking about the downtime, FFXI had downtime for all caster jobs because how the game fundamentally worked, if you tried to brig anything from FFXIV to FFXI, it be insanely broken. So I am more leaning to the idea you are not understanding what people mean.

People are talking about how SMN is pet focused, something not in FFXIV. In FFXIV the focus is in dots and dot spreading and feels underwhelming. It does not feel like any SMN in FF, and does not bring the feel you are commanding huge gods, like all other FF do. you are simply commanding a chicken nugget, a chicken, or a jalapeno pepper (Hope this is right, cuz I see no H sound, but google..) ...:
https://youtu.be/eHTCwDXVeWY?t=10
credit to that for the joke names.
But ya that is the point people mean.

I only really saw when it was a garbage healing job which became summoner for a single ability about once every three minutes, but I'm going to assume that it changed drastically since release.

DoTs are hardly thecore of SMN right now. It's certainly a part of it, but the big deal is summoning Bahamut. Summons may have previously had a story in pre-X games, but when it came to gameplay they boiled down to a spell with an overly long animation. Obviously this is incredibly subjective, but this is the first time in a long while where it actually feels like summoning. Egis are lame and they could be axed for all I care, but Bahamut really fits the job fantasy for me.

Also saying that Egis are anywhere near WoW demons is just wrong. Egis are DoTs that are tied to a model. Lock pets actually have niches and differing uses depending on spec, encounter, and playstyle.

Parse SMN without using dots, then parse SMN doing everything but no Bahamut, I like to see the results.

[basketofseals]

Parse SMN without using dots, then parse SMN doing everything but no Bahamut, I like to see the results.

If you want to be incredibly pedantic, then really most of your damage comes from ruin, but that was not even my point. The core of WHM isn't Stone IV regardless of that being my most frequent cast. It's subjective, but to me and a not insignificant amount of others, the core gameplay for SMN is about the big burst you get from your DWT and Bahamut.

[s3ystic]

Yes if you start the game you will mostly have a lot of things to do. Otherwise that would be quite strange. Also yes most of us are veterans that are here for quite some time.

Also please can we stop posting that one can only complain if they finished everything in this game? I mean if we go that way none of us should ever complain if all the devs ever did from now on is introducing huge achievements that can only be done in years of work and nothing more...(Like: Do 100.000 fates..)because we have something to do right? Not every content is for everyone and most of the things on your list are nothing more than side content.

I wasn't trying to invalidate your veteran status or say you have nothing to complain about, as a matter of fact i said Veterans are probably the only one who SHOULD be complaining about lack of content. That happens in every MMO. In my humble opinion if a NEW, Not "old," Not "Seasoned," but a NEW player is complaining about lack of content then they either a) don't know what content is being offered, or b) the content they are looking for isn't being offered any they need to do a google/reddit search to for the right game for them. This isn't about being "toxic," "mean," "Aggressive," or "dismissive" this is about getting a person to the content and game they would like rather than wasting time on something that makes them unhappy.

I rotate 3 MMOs for this very reason. One day FF14 will tire me out or bore me, I will rotate to another MMO until i get the itch again. There is no shame in that, playing the same thing for months on end is bound to burn the average player out.

[Snow_Princess]

If you want to be incredibly pedantic, then really most of your damage comes from ruin, but that was not even my point. The core of WHM isn't Stone IV regardless of that being my most frequent cast. It's subjective, but to me and a not insignificant amount of others, the core gameplay for SMN is about the big burst you get from your DWT and Bahamut.

You said it yourself just now why people do not like SMN, again going to my main point, people complain that SMN is not like SMN should be from the lack of pet focus, and you said your self " then really most of your damage comes from ruin" it may not be your point, but it is mine and others in why SMN does not feel like SMN.