Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Saraphin]

I for one think Cadmium's idea is a good one since Regen is a for sure spell that WHM's going to use and rely on building more lily stacks. What does everyone else think?

This has been brought up in pages past and refuted and argued. hard to tell what we will get, but this was one of the EARLY Lily Proc solutions brought up.

[dark494]

You are wrong here. I can gurantee you there wont be more to heal in Stromblood than in Heavensward.

You can guarantee jack all because SB isn't out and nobody knows what the content is like.

[Mahkii]

@YoshiP, the only reason why healers use Cure 2 is for tank busters. Please, have the devs put the lillies and confessions on other spells too. The GCD reduction effect on lillies would actually be nice for increasing Stone/Aero cast frequency if WHM didn't have to use cure 2 to do it.

[Sanghelios]

You can guarantee jack all because SB isn't out and nobody knows what the content is like.

I can tell you what the content will be like. It will require the same amount of healing than it was needed in the whole of Heavensward. Why? Because they wont change the whole healing system from barely needed healing (like now) to a system were healers are busy with healing all the time. This would twist the whole healing system around and that wont work out well and it would require a shitton of ressources to rework old content and the system as a whole. Do you really believe there would be many scenarios where crazy amount of healing is needed? Surely there will be some healing checks in savage, but a whm will NEVER be mandatory for those for the simple reason that AST/SCH have to get through it without trouble too and they will get through it and so that leaves us with the question why bringing a whm at all? I really dont understand how you can be so foolish to believe that we are looking into massive changes to the healing system.

All three healers need to be equal in healing and every healer need a speciality that is equal in worthability towards the other healers special abilities. Right now theres is a huge chunk between the worthability of AST and WHM and with Stormblood that chunk will be a lot bigger just because while WHM and AST are pretty much on par in healing, AST totally kills whm with thier absolute superior utility. They could buff WHMs healing 50% above AST and people would still take a ast because the reason ive listed above (That AST/SCH have to be able to get through spikes just as fine as whm can). Theres is really just one way out of this whole healer mess and that is that they give whm a utility that is equal to the whole card system/fairy, let it be in form of reflect or haste.

[Estriella_Faerie]

I for one think Cadmium's idea is a good one since Regen is a for sure spell that WHM's going to use and rely on building more lily stacks. What does everyone else think?

I agree with that part, Regen (and regens from Medica II) are the basis for the WHM heals. Even when there's a lot of healing to do and we need to spam cures, we'll still pretty much always also have those regens ticking. So it would make much more sense to have the lilies proc from those regens effects than from casting cures. If SE do that, it's great, it will be one part of the problem resolved.

Then we'll have to tackle the second problem, the reward given by lilies. As everyone said, 4 to 20% CD reduction is totally underwhelming, especially as cooldowns are planned and not used as soon as they're up.

And finally, the part which is not specifically for WHM but for every healers, the role actions, where the "choice" is pretty much not a choice, we'll just pay to get our old tools back, and we won't even have enough slots to get them all back... The concept is nice, but 5 slots is way too small to really have a choice, given how mandatory some of those actions are, and therefore we won't have a chance at all to choose to take the new skills.

[Chiae]

I just read today that Yoshi P said that WHM Cure II will have a 100% chance of procing a lily. Now with that being said, I think this addition is a step in the right direction but WHM might need a little more.

Can you show me a link for this?

[Dirashi]

You can guarantee jack all because SB isn't out and nobody knows what the content is like.

Nah you actually can. I consider myself a pretty skilled WHM. The current setup of healing in this game is backwards. You can DPS more than you heal by far. In my fastest clear of a12s pre-echo (9:22), I did a total of 65 stone 3 casts & 10 cures. In my fastest a11s pre-echo (7:40) I did 39 Stones & only 1 cure & 1 cure 3. Damage is king in this game. I will not link how I attained these statistics due to not wanting to get banned or something (lol) but you see my name to the left <--- you can just search me up and see for yourself if you don't believe me.

Now back to what I was saying. We may not be able to know 100%, but you can logically infer based on Yoshi's own words & SE's track record what will indeed happen. The only way to make me heal more than DPS would be for the tier to require as much healing as Gordias did - which will never happen. Yoshi has stated countless times he's comfortable with the current level of difficulty (Creator). Also that he wants difficulty to increase in tiers. So Omega tier 3 difficulty > tier 2 > tier 1. This leads me to believe tier 1 is around Creator, tier 2 in between Creator & Midas, Tier 3 Midas.

Now lets assume the new tier has Gordias level healing checks. If that were the case, the dps checks would have to be around the level of the heal checks - otherwise it would be imbalanced. It wouldn't be fair for healers to be challenged at their maximum capabilities yet DPS get to slack off like how they can in Creator. If they were to raise the DPS checks to match heal checks in an attempt to balance, it can result in a far lower clear rate; something similar to Midas or even slightly lower than that. I can believe this would be a thing in Super-Savage though.

Another way we know is based on the game's progression system. These fights are made with a minimum ilvl in mind. The fights would have to hit so hard that max ilvl players would feel the same pain they did when they were 30+ ilvls lower. If this were horizontal progression, then sure, I can see that happening. However, we currently use a vertical prog system and aren't moving into horizontal prog anytime soon according to Yoshi. Now as for Super-Savage, this can be a thing since the fights are scaled to maximum ilvl players. In relation to creator, that means that a12s Super-Savage would be min ilvl of 270 instead of like 255-260. Everything will hit waaaay harder and it should punish healers.

[Estriella_Faerie]

Can you show me a link for this?

The one who said that gave that link: https://freshlive.tv/ngc/119365
But it's from a japanese live stream, so unless you speak japanese...

[zeopower6]

Yoshi P did say there that a definite lily comes from Cure 2 along with other changes.

http://ff14net.2chblog.jp/archives/51433626.html

He says that the information is from an April dev build and a lot has changed since then.

[Yhximott]

Yes, these points are likely going to be invalidated in 10 days regardless, but we're working off what we currently have in the hopes that if it hasn't changed, or changed the wrong way, Yoshi and the team can deal with it.

THIS exactly. We all know the changes might have come. We aren't working under that assumption because that's best-case. We have to work under the assumption that things are as we have been told they are, and our positions will adjust as confirmation of changes are presented to us.

Nay sayers need to stop falling into the confirmation bias trap. You're not right until you're proven right, and we're not wrong until we're proven wrong. Just because you END UP being right about things doesn't mean you were always right about them.