Thread: Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

Originally Posted by OcieKo

..For the player themselves AST uses the most, simply from card management. WHM in practice uses OGCDs the least often...

Nooooppe You can't do that. Either you include all the healing buffs each class manages or at least the comparable buffs they manage/time. If we're staying sub 90 sec buffs; SCH STILL has more to manage oGCD wise than both AST and WHM COMBINED (any sch worth his/her salt isn't letting fairy sic spam cds!!)

• SCH= emerency tactic, lustrate, Whispering Dawn, Aetherflow, indom, soil*, rouse (I know i'm missing some...)
• AST= CU, ED, card system, Synastry
• WHM= Divine(losing it lulz), Tetra, Assize and Asylum

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

This. Which is why the thought of AST being considered an "advanced" job by the devs and therefore being ridiculously more powerful than a WHM is upsetting.
I main WHM, but I also play AST and there is absolutely no added difficulty or discomfort I have with the job when switching to it. In fact, it feels exactly like playing a WHM, minus the cards. And a dare someone to tell me managing cards is difficult...
I also dare someone to tell me that RNG is an excuse to give a job OP utility. Because if that was the case, why isn't our RNG lilies resetting our CDs by 100% or healing on the level of Benediction? It's RNG so it has the right to be broken, right?...

YOUUUUU....that's the keyword; you don't find the extra cds/min harder to manage than the effort you output for WHM. However the APM aren't in your WHM favor.... AST is almost twice the APMs than WHM .


Every 30 secs you're pushing at minimum 2 buttons and max 3 just to deal with your cards; So evey minute you are pushing 4-6 buttons. WHM only has 3 cds on a 60 sec timer and they are losing one of them....... (mind you they add 3 more card functions so future SB AST will be doing a lot of button mashing)
AST APM is well over TWICE that of WHM on just the cards alone.....lulz

If YOU don't find having to do twice as many action per minute on your AST compared to your WHM, difficult, that's cool! But don't you think it's a stretch to suppose the nominal FFXIV community find AST just as easy to manage as WHM, or even comparable??

Originally Posted by javid

[LIST]
[*]SCH= emerency tactic, lustrate, Whispering Dawn, Aetherflow, indom, soil*, rouse (I know i'm missing some...)
[*]AST= CU, ED, card system, Synastry
[*]WHM= Divine(losing it lulz), Tetra, Assize and Asylum

Given that your using 3.X skill comparisons similar to me. Luminiferous Aether and Shroud of Saints are missing (both going poof). SCH Fey Caress (AoE Cleanse) is missing, Shares CD with Fey Covenant (SCH answer to bole, but in AoE regards its twice as strong). Fey Illumination is missing, shares CD with Fey Wind, and as far as i know Fey Wind is preferred, and Selene is generally used more than Eos, unless im missing something. Which makes Whispering Dawn the cheapest of the Fairie CDs by simple merit of having the least useful shared skill with the single target silence on Silent Dusk.
Also just realized, WHM is the only healer that lacks something they cant use on themselves, AST and SCH have 2 each. Not sure if Benison will join those skills tho. So i guess that goes along side the only job without personal disables (channels/temporary kit loss/weakens part if kit).
And yes there is a reasons to ignoring the non-healing skills, to make a point of what WHM has where SCH/AST have their non-healing utility. Its being ignored a bit too heavily. And no one seems to be recommending ditching Benediction or cutting out a facet of Assize for a party offense buff. At some point WHMs are going to have to take downsides to get that non-healing utility, and that isnt apparent in the arguments, just "I wanna be stronger and have more utility at the same time" its one or the other. You wanna take -50% damage on Thin Air to get a reflect or direct hit buff, be my guest, id rather have the option to DPS with Thin Air, but I play WHM to relax.

Originally Posted by Reiryuu

3. Job skills

- At level 70, WHM has access to 25 skills, if you consolidate stone and aero that leaves 21. That includes fluid aura which lost its damage component so a WHM would never use it in 50+ content because most mobs are AoE'd post 50 and you don't want to break a mob from the pack and you can't use it for fast damage on bosses anymore. It also includes Repose which, while nice in low level content also sees itself useless post 50 because of the exact same reason. This leaves a white mage with 19 skills that they're actually going to use, +10 potential cross role abilities for a total of 29.
- Scholars, consolidated with broil and bio, will have access to 25 skills, + 8 Fairy buffs/Abilities from Selene and Eos + the 10 cross roles for a total of 43
- Astrologians, consolidating Malefic and Combust, have access to 24 + 8 card effects + 10 cross roles for a total of 42. Edit: Yes, ASTs, I would like to confirm that Undraw is NOT counted here.
-While the above may seem unfair to include card effects and fairy summons into the mix, keep in mind that summoners, who have been asking for more egis since 2.X, have been told over and over again that they won't get them due to balance in numbers of skills/abilities.

I just wanted to poke at this little blurb here for a moment because I feel it doesn't fully depict what's going on just yet and would like to discuss what I feel is inaccurate with this assessment.


WHMs have a total of 25 skills. If you consolidate Aero I, Stone I, Stone II, and Stone III, you're left with 21 skills. Utility of Fluid Aura and Repose aside, they still count as skills towards the kit and should remain. If you do choose to remove it, you should also remove other "useless" abilities from other kits like Spear from the AST count and the limited application of things like Spire, Ewer, and Silent Dusk.

So in essence WHM still has 21 skills. The +10 Cross Roles don't really need to be added into the final counts since all three healers get the same pool to choose from.


If you include Aetherpact and Fey Union, SCH has 28 skills. The consolidation of Bio, Ruin, and Broil would reduce it to 25 skills. Then you go onto to state 8 fairy buffs and abilities which is incorrect as each fairy only has three (Eos = Whispering Dawn, Fey Covenant, and Fey Illuminate | Selene = Silent Dusk, Fey Caress, Fey Wind). I feel the error here is that you also included Aetherpact and Fey Union when they're already counted towards the SCH skills.

In total this means SCH has 31 skills.


AST has 28 abilities. Once you consolidate Malefic, Malefic II, and Combust, you're down to 25 abilities. Add Redraw into the mix as a downgraded Minor Arcana and you're at 24. I would advise against counting the Cards towards this total number of abilities because it misconstrues how many "options" AST has at their disposal. The six main cards are functions of Draw, Redraw, Spread, Royal Road, and Sleeve Draw and the two Crown cards are part of Minor Arcana (also a function of Draw) and Sleeve Draw. Unlike pet abilities, you cannot choose what card to draw which is the important distinction. If you could choose what card you could draw, everyone would just pick Balance, thus essentially negating the rest of the pool (in theory, the only time you should be drawing a Crown card is through Sleeve Draw because you'll never want to discard Balance on Minor Arcana). Because the randomness exists, it's not accurate to depict each card count as a separate ability and implying you can use them on-demand.

If you agree with my blurb above, that means AST has 24 skills in total which isn't too far off from WHM. SCH is making out like a bandit though.


I also think it's important to include traits into this count. Even if the current Lily system is poor, it's still a part of the WHM identity and within their traits. Same can be said with Aetherdamn on SCHs. It won't change the count too much at all but I figure it's important.

So, if we ignore the shared traits (Enhanced Mind, Magick and Mend) and the spell masteries we get the following:

WHM has 12 traits. Remove 3 for Mind, 2 for Magick and Mend, and 4 for the masteries, you're left with 3 traits.
AST has 10 traits. Remove 3 for mind, 2 Magick and Mend, and 3 for the masteries, you're left with 2 traits.
SCH has 15 traits. Remove 3 for Mind, 2 for Magick and Mend, 3 for masteries, and 3 for Intelligence, you're left with 4 traits.

So in total
WHM = 21 active abilities + 3 traits = 24 total
AST = 24 active abilities + 2 traits = 26 total
SCH = 31 active abilities + 4 traits = 35 total

The skill divide is there but it's not +13 that's initially stated in this blurb and the only thing that really pushes SCH over the edge is the fact they get +6 skills via pet (arguably +4 if you consider the Summon abilities as a general skill to get to their pet).

Just some two cents to shape this particular point into a more accurate depiction.

[edit] I counted traits wrong

Originally Posted by xNewbx

I'm sorry but FFXIV is not a hard game to play. Once rotations get figured out and released, the classes become easy.
Now what makes people want to play a class is normally one of two things.

1. Play the OP classes
2. Play a class that's enjoyable

Right now people are claiming WHM has neither of these going for it. The Lily gauge is awfully incorporated and the class is far from OP.

Thats your opinion that's its not hard to play....however the community at large has suggested to SE the game is "too hard" hence why SE responded with "We'll lower the ceiling lvl of the game in SB." That is just what happened. A lot of ppl will play the OP classes and be subpar at it, just like they are now.

and the Enjoyable isn't a category; some ppl enjoy playing the OP classes. Instead the two categories are OP and Forgiving!

Originally Posted by xNewbx

I didn't realize playing a game to have fun isn't an actual thing. My mistake.

Pedantic points: you the one that said 1 or 2 not me :P

Originally Posted by OcieKo

Earthly Star, I can't think of a way the 900 potency is gunna make it to the 16th so I've largely ignored it. Holdin opinion on Lord/Lady until we have better details on how their acquired and used, atm I'm still pretty in the dark on that matter, aside from DMG/Healing

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Waiting 10 seconds is probably good enough for SE to triple the healing potency of the spell compared to Assize >.>
Funny enough, it's damage potency is weaker than Assize. If WHM is the pure healer, shouldn't Earthly Star deal more dmg but heal less than Assize?
I don't get this.

As for Lord and Lady, the main effect of this isn't really what effect it gives, but the fact that you now are able to "use" every card you draw. This almost completely eliminates the main drawback of AST. RNG cards. Now no matter what, you'll always get something to use. Either a heal that's 100 potency weaker than Lustrate, or a 300 potency attack.

Combine the usefulness of this with the fact that Ewer and Spire are now AOE, honestly AST really has no dud cards. Even drawing Spear is helpful in some way now.