Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[AlphaSonic]

I can't even take you seriously since all your past posts indicate you're a troll.

He is not lying and you are using his name as an excuse to ignore his facts.

Who is the troll here now?

[Epo]

He is not lying and you are using his name as an excuse to ignore his facts.

Who is the troll here now?

I'm not ignoring his "facts," I'm saying that just by him responding indicates to me that whm is doing fine =/ Not using his name against him, just what I've learned to expect. I don't parse so I really don't know if what he's saying is true, nor do I feel like figuring out how to use FFlogs. I'm not saying he's lying or wrong, I'm just saying I can't take him at his word.

[fantasticm]

I'm not ignoring his "facts,"

That's exactly what you're doing, and you know it.

He's not wrong. Past posting aside, it's the truth. While yes, things may change come expansion day, it's still very likely that what he has said will remain true for quite some time. WHM cannot maintain high single target DPS AND heal indefinitely, so even though their personal DPS might be a biiiiit higher than the other healers, it is simply not enough to make up for the fact that it absolutely cannot compete with AST buffs and SCH utility. So no, their damage will not be on par with whatever buffs the healers get... whatever it was you said. It probably still wouldn't be even if they nerfed Balance to 5%.

[Epo]

That's exactly what you're doing, and you know it.

He's not wrong. Past posting aside, it's the truth. While yes, things may change come expansion day, it's still very likely that what he has said will remain true for quite some time. WHM cannot maintain high single target DPS AND heal indefinitely, so even though their personal DPS might be a biiiiit higher than the other healers, it is simply not enough to make up for the fact that it absolutely cannot compete with AST buffs and SCH utility. So no, their damage will not be on par with whatever buffs the healers get... whatever it was you said. It probably still wouldn't be even if they nerfed Balance to 5%.

WHM cannot maintain high single target dps and heal indefinitely? Why not? Mana? It seems like mana won't be much of an issue in this patch.

[fantasticm]

WHM cannot maintain high single target dps and heal indefinitely? Why not? Mana? It seems like mana won't be much of an issue in this patch.

Yes, MP, exactly. The key word is indefinitely. Longer? Sure. But unless we somehow gain access to Umbral Ice buffs (I wish) it's still a limited resource.

As Skyrior said before, and Fernosaur has pointed out again, WHM's very slight lead in personal DPS over the other two healers is nowhere near enough for them to pull ahead in the 'who adds the most to raid wide DPS' department. The only area in which WHM DPS really shines is in 4-man dungeons, since you don't really need to worry about composition. Speed is generally preferred, and even with the horrible changes, WHM still edges out AST with AoE DPS balls-to-the-walls nuking, and their single target is still great for bosses.

At least we still have that... FOR NOW. inb4 Gravity gets buffed to 2.0 Holy only without the stun.

[Belhi]

I'm not ignoring his "facts," I'm saying that just by him responding indicates to me that whm is doing fine =/ Not using his name against him, just what I've learned to expect. I don't parse so I really don't know if what he's saying is true, nor do I feel like figuring out how to use FFlogs. I'm not saying he's lying or wrong, I'm just saying I can't take him at his word.

Then take me at my word. What he is saying is true and frankly your math doesn't even come close to adding up.

WHM dps doesn't even come close to competing with the damage benefits of Balance evne now and our dps isn't going to be that much higher than theirs in SB particularly when you factor in their new skills. Lord cards alone are going to mitigate a lot of the single target damage advantage we have and Aero 3 is our only benefit in AoE since Gravity does the same damage as Holy. Lets just say a AST casts Balance on a BLM without any royal road. That is 20% of that BLMs dps increased. At the moment a BLM should be pulling well above 2000. Lets just say its a lame BLM who in current high level gear can only pull 2000. That is a 400 dps increase onto the groups dps. That is a non royal roaded Balance. A royal roaded one would be adding over 1000dps. You really think WHM damage output is going to be high enough above ASTs to make up for that?

Further, without good RNG WHM healing isn't even that far beyond ASTs and is generally less easy to use. Earthly Star can heal for twice what Assize does the moment it is cast and will heal for 3 times Assize's heal if it has been cast for ten seconds. None of WHM's healer mechanics proc unless they are spamming Cure or Cure 2. If your dpsing your not procing those heals.

[Epo]

Then take me at my word. What he is saying is true and frankly your math doesn't even come close to adding up. WHM dps doesn't even come close to competing with the damage benefits of Balance evne now and our dps isn't going to be that much higher than theirs in SB particularly when you factor in their new skills. Further, without good RNG WHM healing isn't even that far beyond ASTs and is generally less easy to use. Earthly Star can heal for twice what Assize does the moment it is cast and will heal for 3 times Assize's heal if it has been cast for ten seconds.

Thank you. I will take your word for it. Although, I do still believe my math is not too far from adding up. (Even if my maths are bad) Because WHM already, in current content, out dpses the other healers, yes? But they run out of mana. So if they already can do it, and now we don't run out of mana nearly as fast....I'm having trouble seeing how we don't excel in that department by loads =/

[Fernosaur]

Thank you. I will take your word for it. Although, I do still believe my math is not too far from adding up. (Even if my maths are bad) Because WHM already, in current content, out dpses the other healers, yes? But they run out of mana. So if they already can do it, and now we don't run out of mana nearly as fast....I'm having trouble seeing how we don't excel in that department by loads =/

You're not necessarily wrong. The new changes adress WHM's current issue with MP sustainance. Actually, the change made to Assize is a very good decision and one I had previously said would help alleviate WHM's MP problems: Longer Shroud of Saints and Assize on a 1 m cd definitely make WHM's MP regen more or less on par with SCH's during HW. Thin Air will very likely help push this forward, as pairing it with the new Cleric Stance and Presence of Mind -if a WHM is feeling ballsy during progression (about not needing Thin Air for emergency chain raising or etc) will provide a very powerful window of burst damage that will cause zero strain on WHM's MP.

However, the points the rest of the posters here are trying to make is that, regardless of the difference of personal DPS White Mage can put out over SCH and AST's, this contribution still cannot outweight what Balance and Strategem do for the other 7 party members. AST's guaranteed +10% damage on everyone on pull for 40 seconds is an incredibly massive DPS increase, specially given how most jobs in the game now have ways of buffing other party member's damage for short bursts of time- the only ones unable to do this being SAM, PLD, DRK and WHM. The power of an Expanded Balance during the opening phase of a fight quite easily blows WHM's personal DPS contribution out of the water. Add to this that AST has a pretty good chance to keep on pumping expanded Balances throughout the fight and yep, it can't even be debated.

What most people are angry about isn't that WHM is unable to clear and bring good personal DPS, it's that AST can bring just as much healing as WHM (at least as much as is necessary) while also providing an astonishing amount of raid DPS increments for absolutely no sacrifice. It's an imbalance in risk-reward that needs to be adressed, in my opinion by giving WHM slightly higher personal potency increases and adjusting the negligible Lilly Mechanic, and tunning AST's healing potential down by a whole freaking lot to make it a high-risk/high-reward job that might make progression raid groups (and PF farms :P) think twice if they want the safety net of WHM or AST's enhanced utility but lower healing capability.