Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[MomomiMomi]

But Ama didn't change it. The source is reddit. And the person who posted it on reddit posted a link to the source for that.

[Duelle]

Some thoughts from a guy that likes to run his mouth:

1) When I first saw the WHM UI, the lilies thing instantly made me think of the flower bell UI from Revelation Online's Spirit Shaper. For those who never saw it before, Spirit Shapers have a gauge similar to WHM's lily UI, but with 6 buds instead of 3. Every time that class uses a heal, a green flower appears on the UI, and each green flower active makes your heals stronger. Whenever a damage spell is used, a blue flower appears, and your attack spells deal more damage with more blue flowers up. Switching spells resets the gauge (so if you accumulated green flowers by casting heals and then use a damage spell, you lose all your green flowers), so you had a mechanical benefit for sticking to casting heals or casting damage spells. No RNG involved, and it was more based on sticking to casting one type of spell.

2) Like others have said in this thread, this is RNG within RNG, and heals are supposed to be dependable. It's one thing to have RNG procs like "next Cure is instant cast" or "next cure costs less/no MP" or "next cure refunds it's MP cost". It's another when you have a heal powered by RNG.

3) I get the feeling damage intake by tanks is going to increase. There's no way in hell you'd create mechanics centered on spamming Cure and Cure II without adjusting tank damage taken. If we were to see more AoEs and such, Medica and Cure III would have been included in the RNG lily proc system, but the design seems to be very deliberate.

Assuming #3 has any merit to it, we should probably also look into how WHM's healing output compares to AST and SCH.

[Epo]

4% reduction to a 60 second CD Assize, over the course of a 14 minute dungeon, assuming you use the Assize on CD, equates to a single extra Assize cast. You don't get a second extra Assize until 24 minutes. So 300 aoe potency damage and healing over 14 minutes. Yay?

For good measure: 20% reduction to a 60 second CD Assize over 14 minutes would be an extra four casts, again, over 14 minutes, for 1200 extra potency. It's pretty underwhelming.

One extra assize is about 10% more Assizes compared to what we have now. Since cooldown is also dropping to 60 seconds, that gives us about 15 assizes in that 14 minute run which is a total 50% increase, I do believe~? Now of course, only 1 of those assizes comes from the Lilies and my maths are a little bad at the moment so I could be wrong but I believe that is still a 7% increase in assizes.

[Gemina]

4% reduction to a 60 second CD Assize, over the course of a 14 minute dungeon, assuming you use the Assize on CD, equates to a single extra Assize cast. You don't get a second extra Assize until 24 minutes. So 300 aoe potency damage and healing over 14 minutes. Yay?

Indeed yay. At the bare minimum of an average dungeon run of 14 minutes, you get an extra Assize. Not great, but why refuse? It also seems the longer spent in an instance, the more it is going to generate even under the least ideal of circumstances. So what's the longest the lot of you has spent in one instance before things reset?

For good measure: 20% reduction to a 60 second CD Assize over 14 minutes would be an extra four casts, again, over 14 minutes, for 1200 extra potency. It's pretty underwhelming.

Is it? I wonder how this argument would sound when trying to encourage healers to DPS.

[DreamWeaver]

For those that keep saying "Oh lilies are a bonus!! Just play the way you're playing "

SMNs get Bahamut (Their potency changes is a can of worms I don't know and don't wanna open, but hey Bahamut),
Warriors get 6x fell cleaves,
AST have super Cure III and no useless cards anymore,
and so on.

So are you saying, when everybody else gets cool stuff to play with, WHM getting "Oh getting Lily/Confession procs are a bonus!!" (and Thin Air I guess), is good enough?

I'm usually on the side of "wait and see it with my own eyes", but instead of vague descriptions like "WHMs can now get lilies when they use their healing spells, and the lilies can be used for beneficial buffs", we have hard cold print-screen-ed tooltips that state how we gather and what these lilies do (and they suck).

I admit, they may change it at release, hell they may have already changed it as of now, but unless SE comes out and says something about it, I do not know, and since there's still 2 weeks before the release of SB, if people are loud enough, we may get tweaks for it at release, instead of leaving it dead in the water for 2 weeks (Referencing 3.07 where AST got considerably boosted).

[otarolgam]

is that what all the other jobs are saying about the new things they get in 4.0? cause that's not how it's supposed to work.

all other jobs actually get 10 levels worth of advancement. WHM gets a "bonus perk"?

From what I gather from the Gamer Escape breakdown... All but two of the new actions are buffing actions. WHM literally has it's old kit to work with, except for Stone IV.

Managing MP was what healers had to do, and EVERYONE has to keep an eye on their recast timers to get the most out of them.

Nothing has changed, except now WHM's could possibly have reduced timers! Fantastic!

WHM is already the Cannon of Healing Power. It didn't need much extra.

Is it boring? Sure. But why fix what isn't broken?

[Gemina]

For those that keep saying "Oh lilies are a bonus!! Just play the way you're playing "

SMNs get Bahamut (Their potency changes is a can of worms I don't know and don't wanna open, but hey Bahamut),
Warriors get 6x fell cleaves,

Last I checked, WAR and SMN are not healer roles.

AST have super Cure III and no useless cards anymore,
and so on.

You do know that WHM can now not only raise a player faster, they can also do it more often, and also do it without costing MP. I don't play AST, so please do feel free to compare its likeness here. I actually want to know since I will level it eventually. Oh wait... Cure III, right? WHM's can also chain cast this without cost to MP should the situation call for it. Are the cards still RNG? Again, I don't know. But I do know that as WHM, I can use presence of mind along with Thin air to whip out restorative or offensive spells in a blink of an eye. That is Haste + MP = 0 cost to abilities, which in this franchise have always been two of the strongest to possess. Each are game changers, and WHM possesses both of them.

I think in the near future after we see how things spread out, it might be possible for WHM to add utility by spreading these abilities to other members, i.e MP and TP reduction, along with decreased recast times. Some bosses are just like, "For the love of God why do you have so much HP? Please kill him. Someone please kill him!" In these situations, knowing that you are reducing everyone else's CDs along with your own, might help bring such fights to a close faster before poor WHM go OoM.

[TaleraRistain]

They had the perfect opportunity to provide us utility that is desperately needed with the lily mechanic and it didn't have to tie into dps. They could have given us abilities for the lilies like party-wide shields, AoE cleanse, haste, or finally given us things missing like the En-family of spells that could help party dps but would also fit right into a whm toolkit. They could have had the lilies increase from utilizing our entire toolkit. Instead, we get a mechanic that only increases through the use of two of our abilities, gives us cooldowns reduction we can't control and which will be useless if we need to emergency heal with something besides what we were trying to save lilies for, and is so heavily RNG based that we will either ignore it entirely and just utilize it when it may be available through normal Cure/Cure II usage or force us to ignore the vast majority of our available toolkit just to be able to utilize it.

[Skyrior]

If a WHM does DPS while heal, I can imagine that the amount of damage they'll output will be on par of whatever buffs the other healers get + their own dps.

This isn't even true right now and won't magically be true in 4.0

And guess what? ASTs and SCHs have better non-damage-related support/buffs than WHM.

So even if ASTs don't have Balance or Arrow and SCHs don't have crit buff, people will still take AST/SCH.

1. AST's Lightspeed buff allows for easy movement while casting Aspected Helios instantly

2. AST's Noct Aspected Benefic is an instant 170% shield (about to be 300%)

3. AST's Collective Unconscious is a 10% damage reduction AND a raid-wide 150 potency/tick regen...

4. which can be extended by AST's Celestial Opposition, which also extends all AST buffs on all party members

5. ASTs can use Bole on tanks, and can provide MP/TP regen when needed (and about to be automatically raid-wide without having to use Expanded Royal Road).

6. ASTs can even use Time Dilation to extend beneficial effects on a party member.

7. SCHs have Fey Covenant which reduces incoming magic damage by 20% for 20s (or 15s, forgot).

8. SCHs can spread high potency shields in the form of crit adlo to other nearby party members for insane mitigation (spreading a shield on a Convalescence Warrior with Mantra active can outright nullify boss ultimates/damage intensive phases like Mega Holys in several raids)

9. SCHs have an instant-cast and 0-MP Assize (Indomitability) that is on a much shorter cooldown.

10. SCHs have Sacred Soil that can reduce incoming raid-wide damage by 10% during damage intensive phases if Indom isn't safe enough (especially useful during prog, but theoretically Sacred Soil is usually a waste of Aetherflow, but hey, safety > speed when you haven't cleared yet).

11. SCHs can apply Virus which greatly mitigates incoming raid-wide damage or tankbusters (about to be removed though).

12. SCHs can also opt to use raid-wide Esuna (in the form of Fey Caress), which is useful in fights like Deathgaze Hollow (is there a Hollow in its name? I don't recall).

[DreamWeaver]

I think in the near future after we see how things spread out, it might be possible for WHM to add utility by spreading these abilities to other members, i.e MP and TP reduction, along with decreased recast times. Some bosses are just like, "For the love of God why do you have so much HP? Please kill him. Someone please kill him!" In these situations, knowing that you are reducing everyone else's CDs along with your own, might help bring such fights to a close faster before poor WHM go OoM.

Eh no need to look to the near future, just roll AST and everything is at your finger tips.

Look, I appreciate your positivity, but positivity ain't gonna get the devs to do something, unfortunately for this game, crying and whining works (Steps of Faith nerf, AST ridiculous buff to name a few).

I do not cry and whine, but I will shoot down any comments that are basically "HEY WE'RE STILL FINE GAIS BECAUSE OF XXXX" if your XXXX is factually wrong.