PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

[Misurugi]

I really don't get this argument. healer's shouldn't have to dps. if it's to make or break a dps check... something's wrong. if they have nothing to do tank and dps are topped off sure... do a little dmg. if it makes the dng faster ok... boss dies faster... ok.... I'm dpsing and i'm all out of mana to heal... *blink blink* say what now? both sides are right... I've played every role... I've seen runs that makes me wonder... the hell is everyone doing? dps spam... now i have less then 20% mp and now i have to heal spam... NOT ENOUGH MP CAPTAIN..... that's the the whole point that some of these people are trying to say.. some can't juggle, i've died as a tank because a healer is to focused on dpsing.. to the point they don't have the mp to heal me... So you lot can dps as a healer... you know how to juggle your usage of mp to adequately manage dealing dmg versus healing... good for you.... how low do you let your tanks health go again before you balk and forget cleric's stance is on? Yes I know it's getting changed in SB. but the fact remains... Tunnel vision is a problem. i'd rather have a healer who's more focused on healing then one who forgets the rest of the party is there and causes a wipe.

[Sebazy]

I really don't get this argument. healer's shouldn't have to dps. if it's to make or break a dps check... something's wrong. if they have nothing to do tank and dps are topped off sure... do a little dmg. if it makes the dng faster ok... boss dies faster... ok.... I'm dpsing and i'm all out of mana to heal...

Then you're doing it wrong unfortunately.

Mindlessly mashing holy until you're oom isn't any better than standing there doing nothing but a regen every 20 seconds. If the group's DPS is low and stuff is taking a while to die then you're likely better off doing your damage via Aero III into Aero II multi dotting with a couple of holys mixed in more for the stun than anything else. It's perfectly possible to do very respectable aoe DPS as a WHM but frankly, even as a die hard WHM/AST main, I do all my roulettes as SCH for the efficient nigh endless aoe potential, it's just the better job for this task.

I still WONT dps when I play as HEALER in dungeons groups!

And I'm glad that being a career healer means I'll likely never have to sit there and stomach your entitled attitude. I'll never push a fellow healer into DPSing if they are still uncomfortable with the encounter, but I have no time for those that are absolutely unwilling to roll their sleeves up and put in some effort irregardless of the situation at hand.

And personally I absolutely love these changes, I'm a very cautious healer in progression content and this will let me safely contribute much more consistent dot damage whilst still keeping my cautious play style intact.

[Zigabar]

And I'm glad that being a career healer means I'll likely never have to sit there and stomach your entitled attitude.

People like Asahina make me really glad I have a pocket SCH.

[Greedalox]

ok.... I'm dpsing and i'm all out of mana to heal...

Remember when that AST Solo healed A12S? He still had time to DPS during the encounter and had the mana to finish the fight. Now I'm not saying you're expected to be as good as that player, but it is food for thought on how much you're overhealing if basic encounters in this game are running your mana closer to the dry end without DPSing.

[Belhi]

Remember when that AST Solo healed A12S? He still had time to DPS during the encounter and had the mana to finish the fight. Now I'm not saying you're expected to be as good as that player, but it is food for thought on how much you're overhealing if basic encounters in this game are running your mana closer to the dry end without DPSing.

I think you just highlighted that the game mechanics for healing is broken. If a healer can solo heal A12S and still be dpsing then clearly there isn't enough healing mechanics in the game to support the game play properly.

I dps when I heal. Its boring not to. I do however have a concern that healers are moving more and more towards being support dps. At that point it begs the question why even have healers if they are just becoming support dps with extremely simplified rotations? The whole point of having a healer role is to offer an alternate type of gameplay.

Not dpsing as a healer at all is pretty wasteful but there is a point to be had when a player says they play a healer to heal. If that type of gameplay isn't being supported then the devs are falling short of the goal.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I think you just highlighted that the game mechanics for healing is broken. If a healer can solo heal A12S and still be dpsing then clearly there isn't enough healing mechanics in the game to support the game play properly.

I dps when I heal. Its boring not to. I do however have a concern that healers are moving more and more towards being support dps. At that point it begs the question why even have healers if they are just becoming support dps with extremely simplified rotations? The whole point of having a healer role is to offer an alternate type of gameplay.

Not dpsing as a healer at all is pretty wasteful but there is a point to be had when a player says they play a healer to heal. If that type of gameplay isn't being supported then the devs are falling short of the goal.

Well said! I know I specifically chose a conjuror as my first class because I wanted to heal. While now I'm several other jobs, I still have that desire to heal and I want content that let's me do that. Us healers should never be downgraded to support/second string damage dealers.

[CertifiedToast]

I think you just highlighted that the game mechanics for healing is broken. If a healer can solo heal A12S and still be dpsing then clearly there isn't enough healing mechanics in the game to support the game play properly.

I want to highlight this. This right here is the main issue with the problem. There isn't enough going on in a instance that makes a healer be a healer. They are just a DPS with support utility.

Until the core mechanics to encounters change, that is all "healers" are going to be. I find it sad that tanks can pretty much sit there getting beat on by a boss out of it's tank stance and a regen and fairy heal is all that is needed to keep them topped off until a tank buster. Or stand in the middle of an entire sections worth of monsters out of tank stance with just a couple of light HoT's/Fairy and some defensive CDs.

I DPS when I heal as well. Because there is literally nothing else to do. It is wasteful to just stand around. I honestly don't like it. I would prefer to have more challenge to healing that would require me to pay more attention to actually healing.

[micropanther7]

I think you just highlighted that the game mechanics for healing is broken. If a healer can solo heal A12S and still be dpsing then clearly there isn't enough healing mechanics in the game to support the game play properly.

I dps when I heal. Its boring not to. I do however have a concern that healers are moving more and more towards being support dps. At that point it begs the question why even have healers if they are just becoming support dps with extremely simplified rotations? The whole point of having a healer role is to offer an alternate type of gameplay.

Not dpsing as a healer at all is pretty wasteful but there is a point to be had when a player says they play a healer to heal. If that type of gameplay isn't being supported then the devs are falling short of the goal.

This is why I agree with people who have posted that regarding SB it would have been nice for WHM to have more utility i.e. buffs/debuffs instead of more healing spells, I would love that too. Having those kind of utility spells that contribute to DPS indirectly might make some healers more comfortable, rather than using their own direct offensive spells. I enjoy stance dancing and love to contribute to DPS, but healing is priority, if I'm new to the content I'm careful with CS. I started playing AST recently and I love the class because of the utility it brings, I'm thinking of switching to it as my main job rather than WHM.

[Hamada]

I really don't get this argument. healer's shouldn't have to dps. if it's to make or break a dps check... something's wrong. if they have nothing to do tank and dps are topped off sure... do a little dmg. if it makes the dng faster ok... boss dies faster... ok.... I'm dpsing and i'm all out ofmana to heal... *blink blink* say what now? both sides are right... I've played every role... I've seen runs that makes me wonder... the hell is everyone doing? dps spam... now i have less then 20% mp and now i have to heal spam... NOT ENOUGH MP CAPTAIN..... that's the the whole point that some of these people are trying to say.. some can't juggle, i've died as a tank because a healer is to focused on dpsing.. to the point they don't have the mp to heal me... So you lot can dps as a healer... you know how to juggle your usage of mp to adequately manage dealing dmg versus healing... good for you.... how low do you let your tanks health go again before you balk and forget cleric's stance is on? Yes I know it's getting changed in SB. but the fact remains... Tunnel vision is a problem. i'd rather have a healer who's more focused on healing then one who forgets the rest of the party is there and causes a wipe.

This is a problem with people that can't get a full picture and tell people what is wrong. If a healer is running out of mp, it is a HIGH CHANCE there is a DPS problem. A good example was last week when my friend took whm to expert. Every pull she OOM, and she knew it was because the brd was very bad. (wide volley spam, no dot spread, so on) So after OOM on the first boss she said ballad me, and spamed holy(trash ofc) and such more to make up for the brd's lack of DPS.

If a healer is running out of MP it can be for the following reasons:
Tank is bad/ undergeared/ ilevel bypassing/ not using CDS/ standing in too much bad
DPS are not doing enough damage/ilevel bypassing/ using wrong rotations/ not using buffs/improper secondaries
Healer overhealing/ healer overdpsing (holy overlaping stuns can be an issue, if you do not space it out so monsters have the full stun effect, then people take more damage then need be)

A good healer should be able point out those problems, work out a solution, or back off on dps.

Healers need to DPS if you are trying world first, other then that no they do not need to, but I will find it insulting just to stand there doing a single action 20 sec-1 min. I done A1S farming as a solo healer where cleminty here and there and selene was the only healing going on.