PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

[Sebazy]

I really don't get this argument. healer's shouldn't have to dps. if it's to make or break a dps check... something's wrong. if they have nothing to do tank and dps are topped off sure... do a little dmg. if it makes the dng faster ok... boss dies faster... ok.... I'm dpsing and i'm all out of mana to heal...

Then you're doing it wrong unfortunately.

Mindlessly mashing holy until you're oom isn't any better than standing there doing nothing but a regen every 20 seconds. If the group's DPS is low and stuff is taking a while to die then you're likely better off doing your damage via Aero III into Aero II multi dotting with a couple of holys mixed in more for the stun than anything else. It's perfectly possible to do very respectable aoe DPS as a WHM but frankly, even as a die hard WHM/AST main, I do all my roulettes as SCH for the efficient nigh endless aoe potential, it's just the better job for this task.

I still WONT dps when I play as HEALER in dungeons groups!

And I'm glad that being a career healer means I'll likely never have to sit there and stomach your entitled attitude. I'll never push a fellow healer into DPSing if they are still uncomfortable with the encounter, but I have no time for those that are absolutely unwilling to roll their sleeves up and put in some effort irregardless of the situation at hand.

And personally I absolutely love these changes, I'm a very cautious healer in progression content and this will let me safely contribute much more consistent dot damage whilst still keeping my cautious play style intact.

[Greedalox]

ok.... I'm dpsing and i'm all out of mana to heal...

Remember when that AST Solo healed A12S? He still had time to DPS during the encounter and had the mana to finish the fight. Now I'm not saying you're expected to be as good as that player, but it is food for thought on how much you're overhealing if basic encounters in this game are running your mana closer to the dry end without DPSing.

[Freyt]

People in this topic: "I want to change the play style of my party members just as soon as I meet them, which will only serve to reduce our chances of succeeding in the duty as they were already skilled enough to accomplish the objective."

I enjoy when my healer feels comfortable enough to dps some, and I also enjoy when my healer makes me feel secure in focusing on keeping me alive. I never tell healers to chip on damage especially if they're not used to it, as what will likely end up happening is I'll end up dead and the party will wipe.

This change to cleric stance alleviates the concern, but I myself will still not force the change.

[Zigabar]

And I'm glad that being a career healer means I'll likely never have to sit there and stomach your entitled attitude.

People like Asahina make me really glad I have a pocket SCH.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Don't worry, I'll be throwing out my Aeros, Stones, Holies, and Assizes. (The upcoming changes have me soooo excited!)

Just be sure to take a look at my MP if I'm "not doing anything." I could be conserving MP or regenerating it. That's part of the healer's job too. Maybe not as much as in WoW but we still have to do it.

[Belhi]

Remember when that AST Solo healed A12S? He still had time to DPS during the encounter and had the mana to finish the fight. Now I'm not saying you're expected to be as good as that player, but it is food for thought on how much you're overhealing if basic encounters in this game are running your mana closer to the dry end without DPSing.

I think you just highlighted that the game mechanics for healing is broken. If a healer can solo heal A12S and still be dpsing then clearly there isn't enough healing mechanics in the game to support the game play properly.

I dps when I heal. Its boring not to. I do however have a concern that healers are moving more and more towards being support dps. At that point it begs the question why even have healers if they are just becoming support dps with extremely simplified rotations? The whole point of having a healer role is to offer an alternate type of gameplay.

Not dpsing as a healer at all is pretty wasteful but there is a point to be had when a player says they play a healer to heal. If that type of gameplay isn't being supported then the devs are falling short of the goal.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I think you just highlighted that the game mechanics for healing is broken. If a healer can solo heal A12S and still be dpsing then clearly there isn't enough healing mechanics in the game to support the game play properly.

I dps when I heal. Its boring not to. I do however have a concern that healers are moving more and more towards being support dps. At that point it begs the question why even have healers if they are just becoming support dps with extremely simplified rotations? The whole point of having a healer role is to offer an alternate type of gameplay.

Not dpsing as a healer at all is pretty wasteful but there is a point to be had when a player says they play a healer to heal. If that type of gameplay isn't being supported then the devs are falling short of the goal.

Well said! I know I specifically chose a conjuror as my first class because I wanted to heal. While now I'm several other jobs, I still have that desire to heal and I want content that let's me do that. Us healers should never be downgraded to support/second string damage dealers.

[Amelia_Pond_Behemoth]

I'm in the camp that healers absolutely should add their DPS. How hard is it throw a dot? That said, I'm not an especially good healer and every time I throw out some dps, I worry that it was during a time I should have been healing someone. And that's why I never play healer.

[Arrius]

I'm in the camp that healers absolutely should add their DPS. How hard is it throw a dot? That said, I'm not an especially good healer and every time I throw out some dps, I worry that it was during a time I should have been healing someone. And that's why I never play healer.

It's a bit hard to explain, but : There is nothing rewarding for them to do that. You can clear the dungeon maybe a bit faster, yes, but the spells themselves don't have the weight of 'that should hit those guys'.
Some other game feature debuffs that do really affect the enemy in a meaningful way, like attack speed slows, defense debuffs, or something in that direction that they can apply and possibly not have a diminishing return when spammed.
However, SE holds themselves really back with giving stronger debuffs to player, so maybe they should ease up a bit and give the healers something else on their spells than just 'Heavy' and 'Malady', which is close to useless in PvE group content.

[Greedalox]

It's a bit hard to explain, but : There is nothing rewarding for them to do that. You can clear the dungeon maybe a bit faster, yes, but the spells themselves don't have the weight of 'that should hit those guys'.

At the end of the day isn't that why Tanks/Healers and DPS do damage? You don't need fancy secondary ailments to have weight to damage.