PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

[Amelia_Pond_Behemoth]

I'm in the camp that healers absolutely should add their DPS. How hard is it throw a dot? That said, I'm not an especially good healer and every time I throw out some dps, I worry that it was during a time I should have been healing someone. And that's why I never play healer.

[Arrius]

I'm in the camp that healers absolutely should add their DPS. How hard is it throw a dot? That said, I'm not an especially good healer and every time I throw out some dps, I worry that it was during a time I should have been healing someone. And that's why I never play healer.

It's a bit hard to explain, but : There is nothing rewarding for them to do that. You can clear the dungeon maybe a bit faster, yes, but the spells themselves don't have the weight of 'that should hit those guys'.
Some other game feature debuffs that do really affect the enemy in a meaningful way, like attack speed slows, defense debuffs, or something in that direction that they can apply and possibly not have a diminishing return when spammed.
However, SE holds themselves really back with giving stronger debuffs to player, so maybe they should ease up a bit and give the healers something else on their spells than just 'Heavy' and 'Malady', which is close to useless in PvE group content.

[Greedalox]

It's a bit hard to explain, but : There is nothing rewarding for them to do that. You can clear the dungeon maybe a bit faster, yes, but the spells themselves don't have the weight of 'that should hit those guys'.

At the end of the day isn't that why Tanks/Healers and DPS do damage? You don't need fancy secondary ailments to have weight to damage.

[Arrius]

At the end of the day isn't that why Tanks/Healers and DPS do damage? You don't need fancy secondary ailments to have weight to damage.

But the tanks and dps also bring their own non-diminishing debuffs with them, which kind of boosts their utility massively with certain other jobs. Slash debuffs increase war/ninja/pld damage or piercing debuffs for drg/bard.
Healers get debuffs that are of very limited use against trash, and bosses are always immune to the effects with the exception of virus and disable which come with either a long cooldown or a immunity timer.

So why not throwing the healers a bone to more consistant debuffs? It'll incentivize them more to use their spells.

Just because you've never seen a good dps healer or fail to do so yourself doesnt make your statement true.

As a matter of fact, I do know of a few good healers of mine and we did run frequently with very fast clear times. However, you need to remind yourself that SE did nerf Holy in their potency, repeated themselves that healing dps is not being factored in at high difficulty content, shattered the str>all meta on tanks around 3.2 and are making vit/strength accessories limited by class.

This community is obsessed with damage, and SE will continue to wrench against that, no matter if you like it or not.

This is completly false.
Zurvan may now be a meme, but it's still one of the best example of why Healer's DPS is important: skipping Soar drastically increase the success rate of the run. And skipping that mechanic is quite hard to do when healers aren't DPSing. Besides, during P1, there's absolutly nothing to heal if the other party members don't stand in poop. Absolutly. Nothing.

Zurvan isn't the only fight where this is happening. In fact, pretty much all fights become harder the longer they are. So, in short, if you just stand there, doing nothing while everyone is doing their best, you are actually making the fight harder, and increase the chances of not beating it.

This is the reward: higher chances of success.

Besides, if you can't understand that healers, in this game, are not designed to simply be Cure bots, then it's time to stop playing healers, because you drag everyone down.
Or just quit the game entirely, I don't think we'll miss people with that lazy, entitled, and egoistic mentality.

Frankly, if they would've known that Soar was skippable in that way, they might have changed it accordingly before the patch did hit live.
And healers will remain healers and not support dps, unless SE tells them otherwise, not the community.

[Faliandra]

As a matter of fact, I do know of a few good healers of mine and we did run frequently with very fast clear times. However, you need to remind yourself that SE did nerf Holy in their potency, repeated themselves that healing dps is not being factored in at high difficulty content, shattered the str>all meta on tanks around 3.2 and are making vit/strength accessories limited by class.

This community is obsessed with damage before all, and SE will continue to wrench against that, no matter if you like it or not.

Oh? Last time I checked, they said something about being able to dps freely without cleric stance and removing accuracy requirements, which makes
it even easier to dps as a healer. Also, Holy got nerfed because it was ridiculously OP. And it still is amazing even now.

No matter if you like it or not.

[savageink]

It's not like healers couldn't DPS without the stance dance. They just did less damage. It was most useful in solo PVE and as a cross class with arcanist to get rid of those stupid stat switch scrolls. Really, a healer's job is healing, any extra damage they toss off while keeping everyone from being dead is a bonus.

[Arrius]

Oh? Last time I checked, they said something about being able to dps freely without cleric stance and removing accuracy requirements, which makes
it even easier to dps as a healer. Also, Holy got nerfed because it was ridiculously OP. And it still is amazing even now.

No matter if you like it or not.

The accuracy changes were a global improvement (if I'd hazard a guess, it was because of those weird accuracy requirements on savage content), along with parry being obsolete and paladin blocking now also works on magic attacks.
Just because the healers can dps, doesn't mean they should.

Here, because people love to use this one:



Emphasis on may here, if you need to know what it means.

[Hamada]

The accuracy changes were a global improvement (if I'd hazard a guess, it was because of those weird accuracy requirements on savage content), along with parry being obsolete and paladin blocking now also works on magic attacks.Just because the healers can dps, doesn't mean they should.

Here, because people love to use this one:



Emphasis on may here, if you need to know what it means.

DPS should DPS then?

This is a problem with people that can't get a full picture and tell people what is wrong. If a healer is running out of mp, it is a HIGH CHANCE there is a DPS problem. A good example was last week when my friend took whm to expert. Every pull she OOM, and she knew it was because the brd was very bad. (wide volley spam, no dot spread, so on) So after OOM on the first boss she said ballad me, and spamed holy(trash ofc) and such more to make up for the brd's lack of DPS.

If a healer is running out of MP it can be for the following reasons:
Tank is bad/ undergeared/ ilevel bypassing/ not using CDS/ standing in too much bad
DPS are not doing enough damage/ilevel bypassing/ using wrong rotations/ not using buffs/improper secondaries
Healer overhealing/ healer overdpsing (holy overlaping stuns can be an issue, if you do not space it out so monsters have the full stun effect, then people take more damage then need be)

A good healer should be able point out those problems, work out a solution, or back off on dps.

Healers need to DPS if you are trying world first, other then that no they do not need to, but I will find it insulting just to stand there doing a single action 20 sec-1 min. I done A1S farming as a solo healer where cleminty here and there and selene was the only healing going on.

i270 brd too

If you are standing around doing nothing, then you will be kicked in my party. It is also not enjoyable to spam heals to heal someone to only recover 100 hp or less each time. If tanks can't hit 1 button a minute and get away with it, or dps, healers shouldn't.

I have the option to DPS off auto attacks, how would most feel about that?

[Faliandra]

The accuracy changes were a global improvement (if I'd hazard a guess, it was because of those weird accuracy requirements on savage content), along with parry being obsolete and paladin blocking now also works on magic attacks.
Just because the healers can dps, doesn't mean they should.

Here, because people love to use this one:



Emphasis on may here, if you need to know what it means.

Yes, I understand that phrase perfectly. Thanks for pointing it out. Let me help you out there though:

"there may be time" in this case means there is a possibility of having time to do dps, It's a strong hint/suggestion: "hey, IF there is time, dps".

Wow, that was easy. Even me as a non-native english speaker got that.


So please tell me again how removing cleric stance was even a necessity if its sole purpose was to be used when soloing during quests/solo scenarios?


Unless your whole party is horribad, there will always be time to dps.

[Keydah]

Here, because people love to use this one:



Emphasis on may here, if you need to know what it means.

Not quite sure what point you're trying to prove here.

Nobody's trying to tell you to dps when you should be doing something else - they're saying to dps when you have the free time. That line says exactly what everyone else does - if there's time to dps, then dps. There MAY be time, and - guess what? - there is!

Just because the healers can dps, doesn't mean they should.

Just because the healers can get away with standing around contributing nothing to the party for 10-20 seconds between heals, doesn't mean they should.