Dam. meter

[Sil3ntxR3qui3m]

This thread should have ended with the first reply. I tried to not reply to this in the hopes it would go away but it hasn't. Parser is not happening.

[dragonseth07]

This is "Skip soar or disband". This is "Must have purple parses on FFLogs". . . Neither of those being absolute necessity to clear the content at hand. And the community already has enough of a problem going to extremes to get things done.

Why are these PF's problems, exactly? Why is it so wrong for people to want good, efficient parties? Especially for farms.

[Paladinleeds]

Why are these PF's problems, exactly? Why is it so wrong for people to want good, efficient parties? Especially for farms.

Except I see it in training parties too. Doesn't matter that we're doing enough DPS for the content but struggling with the mechanics, the DPS gets blamed. Efficient parties for farming sure, but training parties are exactly that, for you to learn the mechanics. In fact I had one guy be like "No, I'm NW" in my party when my positional macro had him placed elsewhere and he refused to budge. I kicked him (he was being snarky about it, hence me sticking to my guns, everyone else in the party appreciated it, if he'd wanted NW and asked it in a nice way we would have been more accomodating). He then made his own group for training which said must skip soar and his position is northwest and I am not kidding here, minimum ilvl requirement 270. Said party didn't fill. Mine kept filling until I went for some food and a nap.

[Elim]

An in-game healing parser sounds like pure cancer.

Can you imagine how bad players would react to it? They'd spam heals to get high HPS, purposely not DPSing or overhealing like mad. Even if the devs decided to make it EHPS instead of HPS, I still cringe thinking of how it'd be received by the basic player. Of course there's parsers out there already, but I doubt basic players use it.

Now an in-game DPS parser is another story. I'll take that, although I doubt we'll ever get it.

[akaneakki]

Except I see it in training parties too. Doesn't matter that we're doing enough DPS for the content but struggling with the mechanics, the DPS gets blamed

To be fair, bad programming/design on the fight. The fact you skip the shittiest part of the fight , that easy, should never been there in the first place. It makes the fight a whole easier for those who can't do it. Traning parties usually screws up a lot on soar and it happened way too many times with me. Most people find the solution of skipping it, makes it easier and faster. I just think its bad design tbh.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Why are these PF's problems, exactly? Why is it so wrong for people to want good, efficient parties? Especially for farms.

There's nothing wrong with setting criteria for your party.

But let's be real here:

"Skip Soar or disband". . . because I'd rather just deal really high damage so I can skip the mechanic that comes up later in the fight anyways and not have to learn it. There's also the fact that say you don't skip it. Your group's not bad, perhaps just lacking a bit in gear, and everyone was giving 100%. . . well, parser says X player was doing the least damage. So blame them. 9 times out of 10, that's exactly how that'd go.

"Must have purple parses on FFLogs". . . For what? Proof they can do a lot of damage? Because purple parses totally means they can actually perform the mechanics properly and not wipe the party. Purple parses totally means they've actually cleared it if they join a farm (and inversely, non purple means they haven't), is that right? Purple parses means they're 100% perfect and won't possibly screw up even once, yes? I cleared A12S without a purple parse, performed the mechanics to near perfection, and am competent enough to do it again and again. But if purple parses are the standard of capability, then I suppose I wasn't DPSing my ass off, performing mechanics properly, and didn't really clear it, did I?

This is what I mean. Parsers themselves wouldn't be the problem. Player perception and human nature would be. People would overlook and exclude perfectly capable players left and right, looking for "Purples" or what have you, and that'd just be the start of a bad precedent. But that's the extremes some of the players within the community would go to, in the name of assurance of capabilities.

Edit: Let me use a PvP specific example - I end up in an 8v8 Feast match, on team with someone I don't have a great history with. He makes a snide comment about "not getting myself killed right away" (he's healing me btw). Out the gate, I'm immediately focused and targeted by 2 other enemy ranged (of which I'm not entirely convinced wasn't premeditated, but I tend to become high profile anyways.) They take me out about 4 times before shifting focus. He's pretty smug at this point. . . then I proceed to just tear through the other team, scoring 10 kills - the most on our team - and we win. His next attempt to discredit me was "Someone who doesn't even main BRD did as much damage as you, if not more". . . Okay, but they weren't focused, nor did they even get one kill. We frown on parser usage in PvP heavily but 10 kills vs 0, with similar damage; who really put in the work there?

[bardaboo]

Problem is not only lazyness, the problem also is there when they straight out refuse to try. I just find it selfish its all about them. Also about people harrasing others, it sucks .. however if it happened to me, which it have. All I did was to improve to stop it.

I've only been kicked a few times for poor performance, know how i handled it?? I improved! Whaaaaaa?.
Sure there is a lot of casual content in the game, that doesn't mean you shouldn't have to try.

[Shougun]

An in-game healing parser sounds like pure cancer.

Can you imagine how bad players would react to it? They'd spam heals to get high HPS, purposely not DPSing or overhealing like mad. Even if the devs decided to make it EHPS instead of HPS, I still cringe thinking of how it'd be received by the basic player. Of course there's parsers out there already, but I doubt basic players use it.

Now an in-game DPS parser is another story. I'll take that, although I doubt we'll ever get it.

A good parser would be able to show overhealing, if it didn't some probably would try to inflate that number lol. But look at the bright side, a bunch of healers wanted to go full time rather than also DD :P

Personally envisioning SE "making" a parser by allowing players to create addons, similar to how WoW has a parser - but not really made by Blizzard. I keep seeing parser as the lock and key to addons ;/. Although I don't think its impossible to do addons and avoid a parser, but to not be gimping the entire system I imagine they'd purposefully have to block specific things.

[ToasterMan]

I don't think the issue lies in people being exposed and shamed for underperforming, as that already does happen even without parsers.

What I think many are concerned with is areas where someone IS legitimately trying their best, but perhaps isn't "optimal" and getting absolutely dumped on for it. This is in now way defending mediocrity or performing at a "good enough to clear" level. This is entirely an issue of parsers becoming the enforced standard. This is "Skip soar or disband". This is "Must have purple parses on FFLogs". . . Neither of those being absolute necessity to actually clear the content at hand. And the community already has enough of a problem going to extremes to get things done.

I won't discredit people who legitimately use them to improve their performance, but if you're that dedicated to performing your best, and you know your job/rotation well, a parser won't offer you much more than you likely already have a solid grasp of.

This is what everyone has been trying to say this entire thread.

They know this, and I don't think they care.

[bardaboo]

Damage meters have never really brought anything good to a community, in my opinion. I can see them being helpful in elite content of some type where you need to make sure everyone is performing optimally. But usually what ends up happening is people start using them in leveling dungeons and as a way to either stroke their own epeen or grief other players.

Check out the WoW forums if you want to see horror stories about getting kicked from groups for low DPS even though they were clearing the dungeon just fine and nobody was dying.

Why must it only be hard content that we have to care and try? Wouldn't you like to know if you are doing half the damage as someone in expert roulette? If you were the tanking expert and the dps are putting out low numbers and the healer is just afk healing you, you could still beat the dungeon without dying, but it'll take 45 minutes. That cool with you? I wouldn't appreciate everyone's lack of effort.