Dam. meter

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I don't think the issue lies in people being exposed and shamed for underperforming, as that already does happen even without parsers.

What I think many are concerned with is areas where someone IS legitimately trying their best, but perhaps isn't "optimal" and getting absolutely dumped on for it. This is in now way defending mediocrity or performing at a "good enough to clear" level. This is entirely an issue of parsers becoming the enforced standard. This is "Skip soar or disband". This is "Must have purple parses on FFLogs". . . Neither of those being absolute necessity to actually clear the content at hand. And the community already has enough of a problem going to extremes to get things done.

I won't discredit people who legitimately use them to improve their performance, but if you're that dedicated to performing your best, and you know your job/rotation well, a parser won't offer you much more than you likely already have a solid grasp of.

[dragonseth07]

This is "Skip soar or disband". This is "Must have purple parses on FFLogs". . . Neither of those being absolute necessity to clear the content at hand. And the community already has enough of a problem going to extremes to get things done.

Why are these PF's problems, exactly? Why is it so wrong for people to want good, efficient parties? Especially for farms.

[Paladinleeds]

Why are these PF's problems, exactly? Why is it so wrong for people to want good, efficient parties? Especially for farms.

Except I see it in training parties too. Doesn't matter that we're doing enough DPS for the content but struggling with the mechanics, the DPS gets blamed. Efficient parties for farming sure, but training parties are exactly that, for you to learn the mechanics. In fact I had one guy be like "No, I'm NW" in my party when my positional macro had him placed elsewhere and he refused to budge. I kicked him (he was being snarky about it, hence me sticking to my guns, everyone else in the party appreciated it, if he'd wanted NW and asked it in a nice way we would have been more accomodating). He then made his own group for training which said must skip soar and his position is northwest and I am not kidding here, minimum ilvl requirement 270. Said party didn't fill. Mine kept filling until I went for some food and a nap.

[akaneakki]

Except I see it in training parties too. Doesn't matter that we're doing enough DPS for the content but struggling with the mechanics, the DPS gets blamed

To be fair, bad programming/design on the fight. The fact you skip the shittiest part of the fight , that easy, should never been there in the first place. It makes the fight a whole easier for those who can't do it. Traning parties usually screws up a lot on soar and it happened way too many times with me. Most people find the solution of skipping it, makes it easier and faster. I just think its bad design tbh.

[Yeol]

To be fair, bad programming/design on the fight. The fact you skip the shittiest part of the fight , that easy, should never been there in the first place. It makes the fight a whole easier for those who can't do it. Traning parties usually screws up a lot on soar and it happened way too many times with me. Most people find the solution of skipping it, makes it easier and faster. I just think its bad design tbh.

Skipping mechanics is a thing in this game and it has been for a while. Zurvan just made people open their eyes about it.
Those with BiS gear skipped it easly. This is their reward for having best gear currently in game. (It is skippable with 2 tanks, 2 healers and 4 dps)

Zurvan difficulty is between A10S and A11S (it drops il265 weapons) which helped people who couldnt beat the dps check in A11S.
People saw HC grops posting their clear online and wanted to do the same. If they did not include any information about skipping soar in their guide videos, you wouldn't see many people trying to skip it like them.

Heck even dungeons and old trials have skippable mechanics. But you don't see people talking about it.

[ToasterMan]

Skipping mechanics is a thing in this game and it has been for a while. Zurvan just made people open their eyes about it.
Those with BiS gear skipped it easly. This is their reward for having best gear currently in game.

No. The developers didn't intend the player base to skip past it. It was not intended to be a reward at all. It was just an oversight on their part. Just like how the developers didn't intend cleric stand to be used in raids.

Hopefully the Developers learned from that mistake and don't do it again.

[Ama_Hamada]

No. The developers didn't intend the player base to skip past it. It was not intended to be a reward at all. It was just an oversight on their part. Just like how the developers didn't intend cleric stand to be used in raids.

Hopefully the Developers learned from that mistake and doesn't do it again.

Uh no.....
where you get this idea from? O_o there is lot of "skip" things in level 50 cap (maybe even normal dungeons? no idea, can't think of any) They come out with with "new" dungeons where people over gear them already (this is fine, lets newer people catch up) so i am sure they know about the potential of over gearing the runs???

also waiting a reply on:

You are ether:
1. Extremely lucky
2. Queue with 2/3 friends
3. Doing 1 DF a day and think it is a good sample size.
4. You do not know how to see it(meaning you NEVER found top end play so there for do not know what true speed is. If we are quoting expert, Proper DPS can kill the sloppy guy right around the second round of spears. If both DPS, tank and healer are outputing, you will not even see the second round fall.)

Id say 3 out of 4 DFs has someone slacking, as in improperly geared (as in wearing crafter gear, gear that does not match the job, or ilevel dodging an important slot like having all 130 level on the left side, yes i seen a 12000 hp blm before in expert.), do not know rotations, so on. 2 out of these 4 is 2 or 3 being the problem. I had a tank left yesterday who was small pulling flat out say "I rather play league and I feel like being lazy to small pull" and left on his own, even though where we at 70% progress.

A while ago I had 2 slow dps, one on my sever, or our server rather, and I message him that it be a good idea to find a good rotation guide ( I believe I made this comment because this group saw 3 spears fall) while being near top geared. I can't remember if they had alex gear or simply all 270 slots but the point is he was geared enough for proper rotation to not have that 3rd round appear. He told me it was fine, it is just a game, does not care, and I am the first person that ever said anything. This tells me people in general lack observation skills.

Telling someone they have room for improvement or that their lack of effort is noticeable is not harassment. I do not understand for the life of me why it is bad to point out bad DPS rotations but people have a right to harass healers when someone dies. In a different DF I was trying to tell this BLM to AoE rotate because things are staying up too long burning my MP. People got on my case for the wipe saying I was not healing, and that the blm was fun (the blm was not fine) and was kicked for it.

Me and my friend routinely find leveling DFs where we are the top DPS on SCH (in different runs ofc), one worth noting my friend found a Sohm AI run where her SCH did top, then the DRK in mostly grit, then the 2 dps. The only "big exaggeration" here is your own statement.

On the forums "Nobody PROMOTES bad or mediocre play." is true, but in DF, most of the time, people you expect you to deal with the bad play, thus promoting it, because it is only xxxxx, it is easy. I left an aery when vote kick failed because of a group had this mentality, I will not tolerate it.

[akaneakki]

Skipping mechanics is a thing in this game and it has been for a while. Zurvan just made people open their eyes about it..

I'm well aware of that, however soar is such a huge mechanic to skip, compare to other skips we seen before. Usually skips screws up a fight or make it way more awkward than it should be, but soar skipping, makes it float a lot more and less chance of wipes.
The only reason why soar is highly spoken among people or farmers, is because it makes a lot less mistakes, since usually soar screws up more than 2 people if some one actually screws it up.

[bardaboo]

I'm well aware of that, however soar is such a huge mechanic to skip, compare to other skips we seen before. Usually skips screws up a fight or make it way more awkward than it should be, but soar skipping, makes it float a lot more and less chance of wipes.
The only reason why soar is highly spoken among people or farmers, is because it makes a lot less mistakes, since usually soar screws up more than 2 people if some one actually screws it up.

You can skip lapis phase in a11s with high dps. Unintended? cmon. Anytime they put in a mechanic that starts at a certain time or % in the fight they are taking a chance that it can be skipped... if it wasn't supposed to be skipped it wouldn't be possible to skip.

oops this was supposed to be directed at Toasterman

[ToasterMan]

I don't think the issue lies in people being exposed and shamed for underperforming, as that already does happen even without parsers.

What I think many are concerned with is areas where someone IS legitimately trying their best, but perhaps isn't "optimal" and getting absolutely dumped on for it. This is in now way defending mediocrity or performing at a "good enough to clear" level. This is entirely an issue of parsers becoming the enforced standard. This is "Skip soar or disband". This is "Must have purple parses on FFLogs". . . Neither of those being absolute necessity to actually clear the content at hand. And the community already has enough of a problem going to extremes to get things done.

I won't discredit people who legitimately use them to improve their performance, but if you're that dedicated to performing your best, and you know your job/rotation well, a parser won't offer you much more than you likely already have a solid grasp of.

This is what everyone has been trying to say this entire thread.

They know this, and I don't think they care.