Dam. meter

[ToasterMan]

I didn't say required, I said it should be a goal.

Everyone wants to play optimally. Nobody WANTS to be bad. Problem is, the abusers don't care about that. All that matters to them is that they played badly. For them, the sheer fact that someone did poorly is all the justification they need in order to harass someone.

[dragonseth07]

Everyone wants to play optimally. Nobody WANTS to be bad. Problem is, the abusers don't care about that. All that matters to them is that they played badly. For them, the sheer fact that someone did poorly is all the justification they need in order to harass someone.

You know that's BS, or you've never used DF in this game.

This game's slogan is "You don't pay my sub." This community is defined by people who actively avoid optimal play because they don't feel like it or don't like being told what to do.

Hell, they are posting in this thread.

When I see other MMO communities make fun of this one, that is the normal thing to pick on. We actively fight to shield and even promote mediocrity.

[ToasterMan]

You know that's BS, or you've never used DF in this game.

Well see that's just the thing. I've never seen anyone in DF slacking off on the magnitude that people on this forum say they do. My friends don't do it. Nobody I know on my server does it. I think it's a big exaggeration.

When I see other MMO communities make fun of this one, that is the normal thing to pick on. We actively fight to shield and even promote mediocrity.

Nobody PROMOTES bad or mediocre play. People just don't want to get harassed. MMO communities make fun of each other all the time. This game as a LOT more issues than some people not trying as hard as they should be. It doesn't surprise me to hear this game being made fun of.

This game's slogan is "You don't pay my sub."

That horse has been dead for years. Never and I mean NEVER in all of my years playing this game, have I heard someone say that. I saw it used as an argument on the forums years ago, but never in game.

[dragonseth07]

Well see that's just the thing. I've never seen anyone in DF slacking off on the magnitude that people on this forum say they do. My friends don't do it. Nobody I know on my server does it. I think it's a big exaggeration.

Then you must be extremely lucky. I have to kick someone trying to get carried probably once a week.

I routinely get dungeons where I'm top DPS in Shield Oath PLD. That should NEVER happen.

[Llan]

-snip-

Exactly!

And you know what, had a 53 WHM in Aery once, he wasn't a good healer but instead of saying "Your healing numbers are too low mate, you need to get better", I told him what he could do to increase his healing output. Healers don't have a fixed rotation, everything I know came from practice. And you know what, he was a better player after that run. He didn't feel bad about himself and the game will keep a player that might become a really good healer eventually.

It's easy to detect this kind of stuff.
Parsers should stay where they are, limited to hardcore end-game static or PF groups and MAYBE something on a dummy to optimize rotations.
I still prefer the natural evolution of a player over the fabricated One-Rotation-To-Rule-Them-All)

And by all means, I am not defending bad players in Hardcore content.

[Ama_Hamada]

Well see that's just the thing. I've never seen anyone in DF slacking off on the magnitude that people on this forum say they do. My friends don't do it. Nobody I know on my server does it. I think it's a big exaggeration.

You are ether:
1. Extremely lucky
2. Queue with 2/3 friends
3. Doing 1 DF a day and think it is a good sample size.
4. You do not know how to see it(meaning you NEVER found top end play so there for do not know what true speed is. If we are quoting expert, Proper DPS can kill the sloppy guy right around the second round of spears. If both DPS, tank and healer are outputing, you will not even see the second round fall.)

Id say 3 out of 4 DFs has someone slacking, as in improperly geared (as in wearing crafter gear, gear that does not match the job, or ilevel dodging an important slot like having all 130 level on the left side, yes i seen a 12000 hp blm before in expert.), do not know rotations, so on. 2 out of these 4 is 2 or 3 being the problem. I had a tank left yesterday who was small pulling flat out say "I rather play league and I feel like being lazy to small pull" and left on his own, even though where we at 70% progress.

A while ago I had 2 slow dps, one on my sever, or our server rather, and I message him that it be a good idea to find a good rotation guide ( I believe I made this comment because this group saw 3 spears fall) while being near top geared. I can't remember if they had alex gear or simply all 270 slots but the point is he was geared enough for proper rotation to not have that 3rd round appear. He told me it was fine, it is just a game, does not care, and I am the first person that ever said anything. This tells me people in general lack observation skills.

Telling someone they have room for improvement or that their lack of effort is noticeable is not harassment. I do not understand for the life of me why it is bad to point out bad DPS rotations but people have a right to harass healers when someone dies. In a different DF I was trying to tell this BLM to AoE rotate because things are staying up too long burning my MP. People got on my case for the wipe saying I was not healing, and that the blm was fun (the blm was not fine) and was kicked for it.

Me and my friend routinely find leveling DFs where we are the top DPS on SCH (in different runs ofc), one worth noting my friend found a Sohm AI run where her SCH did top, then the DRK in mostly grit, then the 2 dps. The only "big exaggeration" here is your own statement.

On the forums "Nobody PROMOTES bad or mediocre play." is true, but in DF, most of the time, people you expect you to deal with the bad play, thus promoting it, because it is only xxxxx, it is easy. I left an aery when vote kick failed because of a group had this mentality, I will not tolerate it.

[Greedalox]

Well see that's just the thing. I've never seen anyone in DF slacking off on the magnitude that people on this forum say they do. My friends don't do it. Nobody I know on my server does it. I think it's a big exaggeration.

I've seen averaging 900-1000~ ("Friends parser") dps iLvl 260+ more times than I can count on my fingers, and I don't even run dungeons that much. What are you supposed to say to that? Do everything differently? This game has a problem with players never wanting to go beyond what's necessary- and SE is partially to blame for making the baseline braindead. It's not as exaggerated as you or I'd like to believe.

All tools can be abused. We'd have a pretty boring game if "Don't add it, it will be abused" was an excuse for everything.

[Ceasaria]

I know in WoW it was a tool that created a very toxic community. One reason why I quit eso was due to its toxity for having one and players criticizing and harassing tanks and healers for low dps.

If ffxiv implements such tool, even simple trials and MSQ dungeons won't be safe from harassment

Bah, allow parser only for Trial Ex and Raid Savage. It's midcore contents, it should be okay.

[Faliandra]

I agree with everyone whos pointing out the vast amount of bad/lazy dps players you get to meet in DF.

It's far from big exaggeration, its reality. I pretty much do Exp/60/50/Trial/Lvling almost every day, and I outdps at least one DPS almost every time as a HEALER.
I've seen properly geared dps players in Expert doing 600 dps. Badly geared ones doing 300 dps. Jesus, I do more hitting 1-2-3 on the same class , I even do more when im synched to lvl 50.

People need to stop defending laziness. As many, many, many times pointed out already....it is NOT harassment to point out laziness.
It's more about HOW to go about it and approach the issue. And if people didnt start with their defensive "u dont pay for my sub" attitude,
I bet you most people would be less toxic and more willing to help.

As for people saying "Ive never seen anyone say "I play how i want" or "its my sub" " ....Neither have I........until a few months ago. Nowadays, I hear it on a regular basis, so to me, it seems
like a more recent phenomenon.

[Llan]

All tools can be abused. We'd have a pretty boring game if "Don't add it, it will be abused" was an excuse for everything.

The argument goes both ways.
It would be insane if they added everything the community asks.

Hence, this thread. lol