Dam. meter

[Khemorex]

I'm telling you that a parser makes it easier, by far. Since I have played with and without them in many MMO's, I feel I can say that with certainty.

I don't doubt your ability at all. I don't. I'm simply telling you that a parser makes self-improvement much faster and easier if you know how to use the tool. Now, if you don't, that's another story. Using a screwdriver as a hammer won't get you anywhere.

im sorry , but everything that has to be sayed has been sayed alrdy in the past 25 pages.

the only thing that left for players to do after 25 pages of identical responses , is trying to sound smarter then everyone else ^^

[akaneakki]

I'm telling you that a parser makes it easier, by far. Since I have played with and without them in many MMO's, I feel I can say that with certainty.

I don't doubt your ability at all. I don't. I'm simply telling you that a parser makes self-improvement much faster and easier if you know how to use the tool. Now, if you don't, that's another story. Using a screwdriver as a hammer won't get you anywhere.

I did clear savage alex 1-4 without parser, I did coil without a parser too. But honestly on help from others WITH a parser, they told me to increase my dps which helped me a lot to re-do my skills, when to pop stuff and when not to. Having a parser would def make my life easier, but I'm on ps4, so I cant. And why do people here who are againt's parser have to talk for the console players? Do they even have a clue how many on the ps4 wants to actually have a parser? :/

im sorry , but everything that has to be sayed has been sayed alrdy in the past 25 pages.

But also some people tend to say something we never said, so some people have to repeat themselves too many times. :/

[Kosmos992k]

There is not assumptions, you need proper information and for that you need tools and a place to compare numbers. Without numbers you are no longer using facts just "feelings".

Bull. Before parsers, people learned to play their jobs in RPGs well and developed optimal rotations - without the assistance of parsers. Now with or without parsers, people can learn their job and learn optimal rotations without a parser or some ProBro telling them what to do - because some people actually pay attention to what the game tells them, and some people want to improve, so they do.

If you want to be a Vulcan about it an deride players who learn to play their role without the numbers you prize so highly, that's your problem, and no one else's.

Learn your skills, learn how they work, learn when they can be used to best effect - bu *understanding* the game and your job. It makes you much more effective than being a paint by numbers player who only knows how to hit certain numbers in certain conditions.

[Greedalox]

Bull. Before parsers, people learned to play their jobs in RPGs well and developed optimal rotations - without the assistance of parsers. Now with or without parsers, people can learn their job and learn optimal rotations without a parser or some ProBro telling them what to do - because some people actually pay attention to what the game tells them, and some people want to improve, so they do.

I'm going to ask you who you think does all the work in optimizing how a class is "played and learned well" so that people without parsers don't have to use them in the first place. Because let me tell you, people have been using Pen and Paper math/ Programs and sharing the information within gaming communities since the dawn of MMO's.

So whether or not you believe you need a parser to learn your class, remember that the information and rotations shared between players are derived from number crunching, whether is be paper or program.

There's more to damage/rotation/learning than reading some tooltips. It helps! Don't get me wrong, but it's pretty misleading to say that all the information is front faced.

[Kosmos992k]

I'm going to ask you who you think does all the work in optimizing how a class is "played and learned well" so that people without parsers don't have to use them in the first place. Because let me tell you, people have been using Pen and Paper math/ Programs and sharing the information within gaming communities since the dawn of MMO's.

So whether or not you believe you need a parser to learn your class, remember that the information and rotations shared between players are derived from number crunching, whether is be paper or program.

There's more to damage/rotation/learning than reading some tooltips. It helps! Don't get me wrong, but it's pretty misleading to say that all the information is front faced.

I disagree, the information needed is in the batle logs, and the skill information, and especially the real world performance. Unless people are simply not watching how much damage they do, they can't help but learn how their skills perform during combat.

I've said before, and will say again that I can see a role for parsers in end-game/hardcore/savage difficulty content because of the tighter DPS checks, I am not doubting that. But I would contend that you can get to within about 85% of optimal by actually learning your job, paying attention to the game and battle log. Not everyone can do this, and even with a parser very, very few can hit the level of perfection required to maintain an optimal rotation for more than a single series, the timings needed are too tight, and conditions in battle will force corrections and other changes that prevent players from hitting that perfect rotation.

I do feel though that players who have mastered their job and can hit around about 85% of optimal damage with their play, will be able to improve in end-game, perhaps even through the use of a damage meter or other tool.

However most of the time this subject is discussed the most vehement criticism of players and demand for parsers comes from posters who describe others as if they are doing nothing more than auto attack damage. A parser can't and won't help such players. Nor will having a specific number for their DPS as a comparison make them see shame for their performance.

Lastly. I am well aware that there is a player community that theory crafts rotations and that they did so before the advent of parsers and they continue to do so with the assistance of the data derived from game logs (however it's derived). But I am also aware that outside of that community there are a lot of very good players who learned to play their job/role/class in whichever game without reference to all of that theory crafting and data.

Note, I am not saying you can learn your rotation from just reading tooltips. I am saying you can do it by reading that information, understanding it, putting it into practice in-game and watching your damage numbers - even reviewing battle logs, and by trying different things and really learning to play that job. There is a lot of difference between simply reading tool tips and spending months playing and improving your craft (how well you play your job/role) through practice, practice, practice.

[bardaboo]

Let's not forget when you are in a dungeon with someone that is pulling tge group down, their excuse for not improving is "i don't have time to look up guides bla bla." Ok so obviously they don't care enough. But if they had a number right in their face they might miiiiight try to make that number higher.

I know people can be jerks, but you don't need a parser to be a jerk. Pluuuusss number shaming can still be considered harassment. So really you guys have no actual solid argument against this feature.

[Arrius]

Also, back then in the older mmos, performing bad and dying was quite punishing compared to the 'holding hand/everything is fine approach' current titles do.

XP loss and even level downs were possible, significant durability loss on gear with finite lifetime was common, resurrection often came with a huge cost of condition(/vitality) restoration, magic casting (before 'cast bars' were the norm) could be interrupted by the slightest attacks whenever it did damage or not, hitting under 25% of your max HP would start slowing you down and made clutch escapes impossible.

Servers didn't had matchmaking like today, so your reputation decided whenever you are getting invited into the big raid or being a 'Persona non grata'

And now? You hit up a mender and 'repair all'. Done. Nothing valuable was lost with the exception of maybe 300 gil and no lessons were learned for NoobDragoon#51 who kept falling off the edge in titan nm, because the consequences for underperforming have become a non issue. Was just another faceless player you might never see again in the dungeon finder.

[Kosmos992k]

Also, back then in the older mmos, performing bad and dying was quite punishing compared to the 'holding hand/everything is fine approach' current titles do.

XP loss and even level downs were possible, significant durability loss on gear with finite lifetime was common, resurrection often came with a huge cost of condition(/vitality) restoration, magic casting (before 'cast bars' were the norm) could be interrupted by the slightest attacks whenever it did damage or not, hitting under 25% of your max HP would start slowing you down and made clutch escapes impossible.

And today? You hit up a mender and 'repair all'. Done. Nothing valuable was lost with the exception of maybe 300 gil and no lessons were learned for NoobDragoon#51 who kept falling off the edge in titan nm, because the consequences for underperforming have become a non issue.

That very much depends on the player. I feel bad if there is even a death, never mind a wipe. When I heal, even more so. My wife gets very stressed if anyone even get's close to death during a fight. Why? Because we care not only how well we perform for our own satisfaction, but how well we contribute to the team so as not to let the team down. A lot of what you and others are talking about relates more to the way people act and react, and how they view their performance, than it does with actual performance.

You don't need big XP penalties or lots gear or whatever to punish you in order to feel bad and want to do better, you just need a sense of pride in how you play and contribute to the team.

[Driavna]

...

No, you are wrong and emotional.

Data is needed (and a place to compare it too) without it is all about "feelings" and no facts. Also, at any point I say you only needed numbers, thats on you.

[Ama_Hamada]

I do. Cleared all of Coil and Alexander without a parser.
I did once, and didn't feel I personally gained much from it. Practice and some trial and error proved more effective in learning and refining my rotation. But then again, that would imply that it's entirely possible for someone to actually learn to perform well without a parser. . .
No, I know exactly what stats I should have and have geared effectively for that.I have a free, no TP aoe, on top of all other aoe skills I have.
No, I think SSS is pretty mad as a measuring tool all around.
If you really want to nitpick, one could filter the battle log and do the math themselves. Lots of work, but doable.

And for your "real" question, I care very much about my own personal performance. I don't carry, and won't be carried. I have always sought ways to improve even without being able to use a parser, and at this point, anyone who wishes to play their job well knows that pure item level does not beat proper stats.

You make the VERY wrong assumption through your post that console players and people against parsers are content with being subpar. You make the further wrong assumption that simply having/adding/supporting parsers will make you a better player. If you're going to try to make critical points and ask questions to support it, don't make assumptions.

I always did enjoy your postings and this is another that stands out. I am not the "best" but I care about my performance and do better then most. I do not need a praser to tell me this but it was interesting to see when I got a friend that used one and show me.

@ThirdChild. Ok we have 1 person so far. The things i listed are very possible w/o a parser of course. So good on you.
The point of all my questions was to filter out good players from bad. To me it seems most of the players in here are afraid of parsers because they don't want to get booted from dungeons. Anyone who is good at their job shouldn't be concerned.
So. Question for you. Why do you not want in game parsers?

you need to read back, because that was answered:

I don't think the issue lies in people being exposed and shamed for underperforming, as that already does happen even without parsers.

What I think many are concerned with is areas where someone IS legitimately trying their best, but perhaps isn't "optimal" and getting absolutely dumped on for it. This is in now way defending mediocrity or performing at a "good enough to clear" level. This is entirely an issue of parsers becoming the enforced standard. This is "Skip soar or disband". This is "Must have purple parses on FFLogs". . . Neither of those being absolute necessity to actually clear the content at hand. And the community already has enough of a problem going to extremes to get things done.

I won't discredit people who legitimately use them to improve their performance, but if you're that dedicated to performing your best, and you know your job/rotation well, a parser won't offer you much more than you likely already have a solid grasp of.

Why I do not want OFFICIAL prasers is because how the community acts now with the unofficial ones. The ones that offer advice do so with out them, while people with them, just harass people. THAT IS WHY! the community already proved they cannot handle it.