Dam. meter

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

So did I but it wasn't as optimal. MCH have it easier than others though since our WF shows us a number at the end. It's not the rotation that's the biggest issue though. A stationary target is easy but in a raid knowing how I perform under stress is very useful.

Time, practice and repetition will accomplish the skill and consistency even without a parser. Don't get me wrong, it IS nice to know the numbers, but technical expertise produces high numbers, not the other way around.

It's also worth noting that - abusive or negative players aside - in a situation where everyone is performing well, even well enough to clear consistently, a parser can lead to debates or bragging over who's doing better than someone else, and if your team is capable of accomplishing what it wants to, does that really matter? No, but let's not act like we don't know human nature. . .

[akaneakki]

People need to stop defending laziness. As many, many, many times pointed out already....it is NOT harassment to point out lazy.

Problem is not only lazyness, the problem also is there when they straight out refuse to try. I just find it selfish its all about them. Also about people harrasing others, it sucks .. however if it happened to me, which it have. All I did was to improve to stop it.

[Lium]

Damage meters have never really brought anything good to a community, in my opinion. I can see them being helpful in elite content of some type where you need to make sure everyone is performing optimally. But usually what ends up happening is people start using them in leveling dungeons and as a way to either stroke their own epeen or grief other players.

Check out the WoW forums if you want to see horror stories about getting kicked from groups for low DPS even though they were clearing the dungeon just fine and nobody was dying.

[akaneakki]

Damage meters have never really brought anything good to a community, in my opinion..

What about making parser only avaible for raid/extreme primals. Besides in these type of content you do need to do your fair share of dmg. And also those who said as long it's dead it doesn't matter. Well, good groups can do content with 7 people and also keep in mind, just because it's killed doesn't mean its fine for 1 guy to sit back and hit 1 button or looks like it every 15-20 seconds. That's called lazy/ungreatful/selfish.

[SenorPatty]

Some of you sound like you encounter bad people nearly all the time in DF. Perhaps you:

A) need to look inwards
B) Switch servers
C) Your standards are godlike
D) cursed with intense bad luck and need to visit a witch doctor to cure you of your bad juju.

Outside of raids/ex, my DF runs mostly go smooth, sometimes even above that on a daily basis. And yes, I do occasionally encounter some pretty bad ones but never enough to overwrite the good amount of DF runs I've had in this game.

[akaneakki]

Some of you sound like you encounter bad people nearly all the time in DF. Perhaps you:

A) need to look inwards
B) Switch servers
C) Your standards are godlike
D) cursed with intense bad luck and need to visit a witch doctor to cure you of your bad juju.e.

A: wut?
B: how does changing server help when servers are connected to a data center?
c: standars of people actually TRYING isn't godlike. Watch people click 1 button every 15-20 seconds, is that okay? Trying doesnt mean to be the best. Nobody here ever asked to have people play godlike, in fact we just want people to try and do decent. When a player does damage at illvl 270 good as a guy who did the same at iløvl 220, something is terrible wrong, especially with echo.
d: wut?

Note, why can't people just stop say people in here who are pro parser to say they want godlike gameplay, when they actually want people to be decent or at least trying being better. When a healer in here does more than the actuall DPS, you know very well how bad that is. Including most people scream ''healer is healer'' but when a healer does more dmg than a actuall dps?

I think majority forget they play with others and eveyrone have to play as a team. Some people think it's clearly respectful to let people play great so the 1 person doesn't have to do anything, Unfair, selfish, not just selfish but extremely selfish.

[dragonseth07]

Check out the WoW forums if you want to see horror stories about getting kicked from groups for low DPS even though they were clearing the dungeon just fine and nobody was dying.

I'm familiar with it. And you can and should get kicked in a circumstances like that if you're not contributing still.

I can clear a dungeon just fine and nobody will die if I refuse to AoE. Does that mean I shouldn't be kicked? Of course not! I can do the same if all I do when tanking is Riot Blade + Flash. Same deal.

Clearing the content is NOT a good baseline, because you can get carried through damn near anything.

[Lium]

I'm familiar with it. And you can and should get kicked in a circumstances like that if you're not contributing still.

I can clear a dungeon just fine and nobody will die if I refuse to AoE. Does that mean I shouldn't be kicked? Of course not! I can do the same if all I do when tanking is Riot Blade + Flash. Same deal.

Clearing the content is NOT a good baseline, because you can get carried through damn near anything.

Then this sounds like a case of wanting speed clears. Which is perfectly fine, but is not vital to clearing content or progression. If you want to get through a leveling dungeon as fast as possible you can make your own group with like-minded players. You don't need a damage meter to know who's pulling their weight and who's not. There's only two DPS in regular dungeons. It not hard to figure out which one it is.

[dragonseth07]

Then this sounds like a case of wanting speed clears. Which is perfectly fine, but is not vital to clearing content or progression. If you want to get through a leveling dungeon as fast as possible you can make your own group with like-minded players. You don't need a damage meter to know who's pulling their weight and who's not. There's only two DPS in regular dungeons. It not hard to figure out which one it is.

You seem to have ignored my point. Either that, or it's okay to not try because we will clear in the end anyway.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I don't think the issue lies in people being exposed and shamed for underperforming, as that already does happen even without parsers.

What I think many are concerned with is areas where someone IS legitimately trying their best, but perhaps isn't "optimal" and getting absolutely dumped on for it. This is in now way defending mediocrity or performing at a "good enough to clear" level. This is entirely an issue of parsers becoming the enforced standard. This is "Skip soar or disband". This is "Must have purple parses on FFLogs". . . Neither of those being absolute necessity to actually clear the content at hand. And the community already has enough of a problem going to extremes to get things done.

I won't discredit people who legitimately use them to improve their performance, but if you're that dedicated to performing your best, and you know your job/rotation well, a parser won't offer you much more than you likely already have a solid grasp of.