Machinist extinction in 4.0?

[Syll]

It took me ALL of heavensward to learn how to play machinist............
That's how strict this job is and why it needs more simplifying than any class. If Yoshida thinks black mage became too complex with enochain he should really try out machinist and find out how high the focus one needs to play a machinist is.

There are plenty of things I'd like to see changed about MCH, but complexity isn't one of them. Then again, I disagree with the overall philosophy Yoshi is espousing about simplifying classes. System mastery -should- be rewarded with markedly better results.

Personally I would much rather MCH gets the different gun attachments and meaningful ammo use that the class was touted to come with on release..

The majority would probably be more happy the RNG is gone on Machinist considering it is the RNG Mechanic that people consider the Primary issue with the Job thus the low played population.

It is a very out of control mechanic that leaves a lot on chance when the ammo is on cooldown.

I have a hunch that if they removed the RNG, they would also remove the ability to 'hold' procs. I'm not always a fan of RNG not proccing, but I really, like being able to go 1> 2 > 1 > 3 >2 >3

FFXIV was doing bad before HW?
Complexity is never positive. A high ceiling is.

How can you claim it is 'never positive' when you have multiple people telling you that they specifically enjoy it?

Further, I would argue that the complexity allows for a higher ceiling. By increasing the difficulty of the class, you are reducing the number of people able to hit that ceiling, and by making them outliers, you don't have to balance around them. On the other hand, making a job easy to play and easy to put out stupid high numbers makes that job the 'flavor of the month' and gets the rest of player base calling for a nerf.

[Inosaska]

They plan on closing the dps gap between hardcore and casual players. Expect abilities to be merged or removed and replaced. They can't fulfill that promise if they plan on keeping the same number of abilities in the game. They will probably follow the WoW ability revamp just like how Legion was approached. Yoshida was at blizzcon so I wouldn't be surprised if he takes that into consideration when revamping the abilities. Just don't expect the jobs to stay as complicated and that goes for MCH very much.

[Ama_Hamada]

There are plenty of things I'd like to see changed about MCH, but complexity isn't one of them. Then again, I disagree with the overall philosophy Yoshi is espousing about simplifying classes. System mastery -should- be rewarded with markedly better results.
Personally I would much rather MCH gets the different gun attachments and meaningful ammo use that the class was touted to come with on release..


I have a hunch that if they removed the RNG, they would also remove the ability to 'hold' procs. I'm not always a fan of RNG not proccing, but I really, like being able to go 1> 2 > 1 > 3 >2 >3


How can you claim it is 'never positive' when you have multiple people telling you that they specifically enjoy it?

Further, I would argue that the complexity allows for a higher ceiling. By increasing the difficulty of the class, you are reducing the number of people able to hit that ceiling, and by making them outliers, you don't have to balance around them. On the other hand, making a job easy to play and easy to put out stupid high numbers makes that job the 'flavor of the month' and gets the rest of player base calling for a nerf.

They can just keep the system with the current way of procs while making them 100%, should always happen but ammo gives a buff to damage. This way at least people that do not understand the job can at least do some respectable damage.

There should be a way to allow basic rotations to pass the casual dps checks while keeping the complexly for higher dps to meet salvage dps checks. (and i mean this for all jobs, not just MCH)

[EdwinLi]

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I don't think MCH is complicated at all. It is a Weaving Job which just involves a lot of between skills weaved into the basic combo.

Weaving Jobs are usually the most easiest job to play for me though like majority of weaving Jobs in RPGs they often involve a lot of keeping a eye on the skill bar for when players can use their weaving skill.

MCH is not a difficult Job to play but I think people make it so due to how it requires more focus on keeping a eye on skill procs for 123 combo and cooldown time for weaving skills. Majority of the Jobs in FF14 doesn't require much worry over Procs and Weaving skill cooldown becuase they focus more on Global Cooldown skills thus why they are much easy to play without looking at skill bar.

[Kazrah]

They can just keep the system with the current way of procs while making them 100%, should always happen but ammo gives a buff to damage. This way at least people that do not understand the job can at least do some respectable damage.

This is definitely one route of the option that should be taken for skills. Much like how SMN has damage phases of Aetherflow and Dreadwyrm, MCH could use the same treatment. This could be done either by Ama's idea of buffing the current filler to ensure ease of use or by having some alternate phase usable outside of that Wildfire window.

The other option would be simply to change Wildfire so it's just a flat 25% damage buff and have it serve as the MCH version of Raging Strikes to give the opener more breathing space. Yes, there would be griping and moaning among the tens of MCH players out there, but it would ease button bloat and make the job more user-friendly.

[EdwinLi]

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Honestly, i am curious where they may take Machinist because it is a Weaving Job. With it already design to weave a lot of skills between skills they can either add more weaving skills for between or something that focus more on modifying the gun or new type of turret mechanic based on new type sof Turrets.

Either way I am more interested in machinist's development in 4.0 than the other Jobs.

[Brill_]

Get rid of gauss barrell and I'd play MCH

[Khanscott]

I have not had the time to give MCH as spin as much as I would have liked to, but from what I've heard about it I'd say it should be readjusted to be more user friendly. Damage-wise, I don't see much to be adjusted but if abilities and cooldowns get tweaked with in 4.0 then the rebalancing would be hell for certain. Situations like this are why we need a public test server so things can be field tested before everything gets thrown out to the crowds.

[Yeol]

Get rid of gauss barrell and I'd play MCH

Unlike BRD, MCH was designed with Gauss Barrell in mind. If you read its tool tips.

Here are some examples:
"Gauss Barrel Effect: Next Slug Shot will have no cast time"
"Gauss Barrel Effect: Next Clean Shot will have no cast time"
"Gauss Barrel Effect: Weaponskills will have no cast time"

"Can only be executed with a Gauss Barrel attached" (Instant abilities)
- Gauss Round
- Ricochet

And honestly, I love it.

[Rysir]

Unlike BRD, MCH was designed with Gauss Barrell in mind. If you read its tool tips.

Here are some examples:
"Gauss Barrel Effect: Next Slug Shot will have no cast time"
"Gauss Barrel Effect: Next Clean Shot will have no cast time"
"Gauss Barrel Effect: Weaponskills will have no cast time"

Is that really anything special though?

As long as you got ammo in and are lucky with the 50% procs when ammo is down then gauss barrel MCH is not much different than pre gauss barrel MCH with the notable difference being gauss is much slower to reroll for slug shot procs and hotshot, lead shot slow things down.

If gauss barrel was only a +30% damage buff then MCH would be putting out more damage and MUCH faster even with the crappy RNG due to the more rapid rerolls for procs.
Gauss barrel is why the RNG feels extra painful compared to pre gauss barrel since you change from instant cast to a cast time which is one reason why it can be really off putting.