Thread: Machinist extinction in 4.0?

I hope so !
Maybe SE would rework the class then and finally give us a dual guns job

Originally Posted by Aquaslash

IIRC, MCH is the strongest DPS right now. I don't think it's going anywhere

Isn't it a little bit too RNG based to be the strongest ?
Pretty much like the AST, when the Gods are not with you.... :/

I don't know why people are thinking RNG is such a big element to MCH's performance. If you're playing the job right (proper use of cooldowns, which is what learning the job is entirely about) there's very little of a fight where you're sat there fishing for a proc, and even if you are it doesn't have that big effect on your overall dps.

MCH is literally one of the strongest dps jobs right now, especially in a raiding environment and if it continues to be it is not going anywhere. If anything I would argue MCH is one of the most well designed jobs in the game right now and the only streamlining I'd like to see for it would be consolidating certain skills together (such as dismantle and rend mind, or the heavy/bind).

I've been a MCH main for most of Heavensward, and while I am interested in Samurai I'll always continue to at least sub MCH unless Stormblood completely destroys it. You know, by like, dropping Gauss Barrel because of how much everyone cried about it despite it mechanically working much better with MCH than it does with BRD.

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

RNG does effect the MCH DPS during the Reload and Quick Reload Cooldown period. When you're stuck only spamming Split Shot between weaving Gauss Round and Ricochet it is a decent amount of DPS lost due to not getting that 50% chance at Slug and Clean Shot.

Just did a 2 minute rotation on a dumby, even as rusty as I was on MCH.
In a full rotation between wildfires, popping Quick and normal Reload, HotShot/LeadShot as appropriate, there were about 10 cases where I fired Split/Slug without ammo, ergo a potentiality for getting a proc.
You lose 40 potency if you don't proc a Slug from a split.
You lose 20 potency if you don't proc a Clean from a Slug.

If one's rotation of those 10 procs is as follows:
1 2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9
10

Split Slug Clean
Split Slug Clean
Split Slug Clean
Split

140 180 200
140 180 200
140 180 200
140

(The differences from Split's 140 base being)
Base 40 60
Base 40 60
Base 40 60
Base

40+60=100
100x3=300

The odds of not proccing ANY Slugs from split is about 1/1024. (Flip a coin 10 times get all tails) a potentiality of losing (in this worst case scenario) 300 potency.

If a WAR's Fell Cleave doesn't crit they lose 500.
It's not that much of a loss.

(Though upon reflection, one's subsequent Wildfires will usually not have full ammo stacks + Reload off cooldown, thus one would have a worse wildfire by having to fish once or twice, the variance for each hit would then increase because of buffs such as Blood for Blood, Hawk's Eye, and Raging strikes being up + Wildfire's 25% damage buff. The difference would be more significant there.)

Originally Posted by Moururii

I don't know why people are thinking RNG is such a big element to MCH's performance. If you're playing the job right (proper use of cooldowns, which is what learning the job is entirely about) there's very little of a fight where you're sat there fishing for a proc, and even if you are it doesn't have that big effect on your overall dps.

MCH is literally one of the strongest dps jobs right now, especially in a raiding environment and if it continues to be it is not going anywhere. If anything I would argue MCH is one of the most well designed jobs in the game right now and the only streamlining I'd like to see for it would be consolidating certain skills together (such as dismantle and rend mind, or the heavy/bind).

I've been a MCH main for most of Heavensward, and while I am interested in Samurai I'll always continue to at least sub MCH unless Stormblood completely destroys it. You know, by like, dropping Gauss Barrel because of how much everyone cried about it despite it mechanically working much better with MCH than it does with BRD.

Like one of my friends said to me

"The problem with MCH might not be the rng but how strict the job is, you eventually end up looking like Mozart"
And that line is exactly why MCH needs to be simplified.

This is how everyone plays MCH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNU-XAZjhzA

It's.....just too much. At some point there's a point where it's just too much. Remove some of the preparation (specially hotshot).
There will always be people who don't agree, but for the majority (from what I see here) MCH needs to be simplified. Fun should always take precedence to any fancies like complexity. It's why Sam and Red mage won't be complex. I bet you 100000 Mog dollars that the only reason why they made MCH so complex is to try to make it different from Bard. But if that's what they wanted they should find funner ways to do that.

Please Yoshida, think first about fun, complexity/strictness is an artificial kind of fun.

Besides removing hotshot I still want to see more support for a dual gun "stance" or buff. To fix the problem of "2 big guns will look ridiculous" they could just shrink in size when you go dual gun. There's your solution devs!

The main thing here, from what the OP mentioned, is that MCH is the least played DPS by 4%. There's a reason for it. If you don't like simplicity, you can aim for complex. But then at some point, complex devolves into convoluted.

There's a giant gap in dps between a casual MCH and a good MCH. The majority of MCH's I've seen, aren't any good. But explaining the job to a casual player isn't so easy. My friend, who is not casual in the least but hated BRD and ended up liking MCH, kept asking me what MCH's rotation was, and I had to tell him over and over that it doesn't work off a rotation, rather, a priority system. It took him till the end of lvl 50's to truly realize what I meant.

Anyway, my main point is if they want more people to play MCH then yes, they need to make it more appealing. If that involves "simplifying" the job, I'd, personally, be fine with that. But they also need to make it visually appealing as well. NIN, MNK and DRG are pretty stylish. While a MCH sits there, goes pew-pew and just snaps their spine. :V