Machinist extinction in 4.0?

[CosmicKirby]

RNG does effect the MCH DPS during the Reload and Quick Reload Cooldown period. When you're stuck only spamming Split Shot between weaving Gauss Round and Ricochet it is a decent amount of DPS lost due to not getting that 50% chance at Slug and Clean Shot.

Just did a 2 minute rotation on a dumby, even as rusty as I was on MCH.
In a full rotation between wildfires, popping Quick and normal Reload, HotShot/LeadShot as appropriate, there were about 10 cases where I fired Split/Slug without ammo, ergo a potentiality for getting a proc.
You lose 40 potency if you don't proc a Slug from a split.
You lose 20 potency if you don't proc a Clean from a Slug.

If one's rotation of those 10 procs is as follows:
1 2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9
10

Split Slug Clean
Split Slug Clean
Split Slug Clean
Split

140 180 200
140 180 200
140 180 200
140

(The differences from Split's 140 base being)
Base 40 60
Base 40 60
Base 40 60
Base

40+60=100
100x3=300

The odds of not proccing ANY Slugs from split is about 1/1024. (Flip a coin 10 times get all tails) a potentiality of losing (in this worst case scenario) 300 potency.

If a WAR's Fell Cleave doesn't crit they lose 500.
It's not that much of a loss.

(Though upon reflection, one's subsequent Wildfires will usually not have full ammo stacks + Reload off cooldown, thus one would have a worse wildfire by having to fish once or twice, the variance for each hit would then increase because of buffs such as Blood for Blood, Hawk's Eye, and Raging strikes being up + Wildfire's 25% damage buff. The difference would be more significant there.)

[CakeOnAStick]

The main thing here, from what the OP mentioned, is that MCH is the least played DPS by 4%. There's a reason for it. If you don't like simplicity, you can aim for complex. But then at some point, complex devolves into convoluted.

There's a giant gap in dps between a casual MCH and a good MCH. The majority of MCH's I've seen, aren't any good. But explaining the job to a casual player isn't so easy. My friend, who is not casual in the least but hated BRD and ended up liking MCH, kept asking me what MCH's rotation was, and I had to tell him over and over that it doesn't work off a rotation, rather, a priority system. It took him till the end of lvl 50's to truly realize what I meant.

Anyway, my main point is if they want more people to play MCH then yes, they need to make it more appealing. If that involves "simplifying" the job, I'd, personally, be fine with that. But they also need to make it visually appealing as well. NIN, MNK and DRG are pretty stylish. While a MCH sits there, goes pew-pew and just snaps their spine. :V

[Atlaworks]

A great black mage (simplest dps class) still has a high ceiling to reach even if the class is "simple."

I would... not call black mage the simplest DPS class by a country mile, dude.

[AlexanderThorolund]

Machinist is Godly and a supreme being to look down and cast judgement at all mortal jobs.

That is all.

[Moururii]

I'm not sure why one job being more complex is a problem. If you don't like it there are other jobs to play? Many of us currently playing MCH enjoy it's complexity over other jobs. That said I don't even personally find MCH complex, it's easy to break down and was very easy for me to learn. I find Monk incredibly difficult to play while others would call it straightforward and simple. Different strokes for different folks. What is fun for one person is not for the other.

MCH was designed from the beginning, like all the Heavensward jobs, to have a higher skill floor than the others, I'm not sure why this is a bad thing when other jobs exists that are easier to pick up. Could the job be taught better? Absolutely, XIV in general could teach a lot of things a lot better but MCH isn't in need of some dramatic overhaul like half this thread is acting like.

Haven't heard of anyone advocating dropping Gauss Barrel compared to people advocating to drop Minuet outside of aesthetic reasons.

Actually, the salt level would be pretty astronomical if the devs took out Gauss Barrel but left Minuet alone.

It comes up less but it's pretty frequently thrown in with WM complaints at least from my own experience.

[Allyrion]

I like the relatively high skill floor of MCH. But I'm surprised it's being called too strict or convoluted. I think the challenge is where it should be because MCH is actually very versatile in a raid environment.

Sure, Wildfire can require a lot of considerations to optimize that small window but that's really it. You know what's more strict - old DRG positionals that wouldn't apply buffs if you missed it. Or better yet, BLM cast times. BLM might not be as complex rotationally but it's base mechanics are extremely strict and punishing. MCH is the opposite, it's just more active but extremely versatile in situations. It's not only opening burst, it has great dps overall and it buffs the melee with hypercharge.

I don't think they should simplify MCH. They could make it a little more visually appealing ability wise though.

[CakeOnAStick]

I think some people are getting the wrong idea about what I actually think because I threw some adjectives out there. What I was trying to get at is: why aren't many people playing MCH?

Some people think it's complex and love it, and some people think it's complex and avoid it. Some people think it's simple and don't know what the fuss is about, and some people think it's convoluted and avoid it.

If you love MCH, that's great. I also love MCH. I think it's a complex job, but I've also gotten use to its complexity. However, I won't touch it for casual content out of pure laziness. And I couldn't care less if they "simplify" the job or not.

But if SE wants more people to play MCH, I'm wondering what changes they actually have in mind for SB.

[AlexanderThorolund]

People don't play it because of GB probably, they think of a gunner class and think running around shooting bullets from every direction and when they hit 52 and realise it's more of a gun Mage they drop it. It's understandable really but you have to respect Squares vision for the job.

It's all about respect not entitlement.

[Makeda]

Every group game needs options that have a range in low to high skill floors and skill ceilings.
If not, some portion of your playersite will either get bored (too simple) or frustrated (too hard). The high skill floor options are never popular, but they are vital or you risk losing a part of the player base that is deeply invested.

[Ghastly]

Every group game needs options that have a range in low to high skill floors and skill ceilings.
If not, some portion of your playersite will either get bored (too simple) or frustrated (too hard). The high skill floor options are never popular, but they are vital or you risk losing a part of the player base that is deeply invested.

FFXIV was doing bad before HW?
Complexity is never positive. A high ceiling is.

Black mage is simple but the ceiling is high.