@Naoki Yoshida-> Make Samurai a Tank class!

[Shippuu]

But adding more tank classes will not fix the stigma around tanking. It will not make more people wanna be tanks. It will just give the current tank pool more toys to play with.

I'm pointing this out and bolding for emphasis. This right here, is absolutely the only reason needed to justify adding another Tank class to this game. That's it, that's all that needs to be said for it to be a good decision. Because this is exactly what adding any job really breaks down to, simply adding more variety for existing players.

People like to come into these kinds of threads, and act like if a new Tank job doesn't magically fix the stigma of tanking that has plagued trinity MMO's since existence, then it isn't worth adding. Which is complete and utter BS, you won't see them applying those same "must fix something" standard to adding DPS roles.

Here's the thing about adding new tank jobs, it provides a multitude of benefits, while offering no actual real downsides in and of itself. Whereas NOT adding new tank jobs offer plenty of short and longterm negative effects. Some pros to adding new tank jobs are things like a potential to increase tank populations temporarily and/or longterm. Revitalizes queues as new and existing tank players are now participating in lower/leveling content. Can bring returning tank players back to the game. Gives existing tank players fresh variety to keep them playing etc. Some cons of NOT adding new tank jobs are things like existing tank players getting bored of their current variety and leaving, reducing tank numbers even more. Attracting tank players away from their role towards freshly released DPS jobs which tips the balance further into tanks being even more in demand, this is particularly bad at the release of an expansion, where you want returning/new purchasers to get good impressions of the game, waiting in inflated queues hurts this impression negatively.

People say that only tank players like playing tanks but that is absolutely demonstrably un-true. I personally have witnessed many people who were "career" DPS who were tempted by Dark Knight's addition to try tanking and found they loved it. My own experience is of the same vein, many years ago I wouldn't have dreamed of playing as a tank but now it's obviously my preferred role. While these are anecdotal evidence, one merely needs to check forums and places like reddit where every week there's usually someone dipping their toe into tanking and asking questions, the majority of said threads are straight up because of Dark Knight. This is a perfect example of why adding new tank jobs that are also popular and appealing concepts/archetypes/etc. is nothing but a good thing.

[AlphaFox]

How much did Dark Knight increase the amount of active tank players?

It did help, not by an astounding number but enough I feel to make a difference. I mentioned before but I refused to tank, now that I have DRK I may actually try to go as a DPS, see a big wait and say screw it and jump in as a Tank where as before would have been a "Nope" and went healer or waited it out. Not saying I want SAM as a tank but I wouldn't say no either way. If we do not get a tank in the expansion with the new classes were going to start hurting for wait times or POTD is going to be booming even more so. Personally prefer to learn my jobs in actual dungeons over POTD.

[Shippuu]

How much did Dark Knight increase the amount of active tank players?

No one can actually answer this with any credibility except for SE themselves because they'd actually have the metrics. So you can act smarmy all you want, you don't have the proof it didn't increase active tank players either.

[shao32]

snip

dont worry im not attacking you or something like that, i respect other players opinions, so i concede you opinon about the coment that you dont like bcs i see the same on the dps side, but a little more agresive if i can say that.

about what you say of the tank pool will shrink like shippu say i can give you another way to see it, this game is built around the holy trinity, its just more that a balance, every role is a huge pillar how holds FFXIV, if one is to bigger the game suffer for that and if we lost one the game just simple dies.

the tank pillar right know is getting break by WAR, now more that ever whe need a new tank and take and share all the utility betwen all tanks.

[Korbash]

Because this is exactly what adding any job really breaks down to, simply adding more variety for existing players.

The same thing can be said about adding more magic DPS jobs, which is really needed because with just 2 jobs there is no variety at all. Only having 2 magic DPS jobs is unfair while everyone else has more. What we need is to have more magic DPS jobs.

[Madepossible]

I saw a quote from someone just now:

Yoshi-P has said in the past that when deciding on the tank role for Heavensward, they were torn between making it a Dark Knight or a Samurai. They eventually opted to make it the Dark Knight for Heavensward.

Video from PAX East 2015 speaking to tank role design decision.

This doesn't mean they will be releasing Samurai in the future and this also doesn't mean if they do release Samurai it'll be a tank role, but it was considered to be a tank role at one point in time when deciding the jobs for Heavensward.

yes please o.o/

[Shippuu]

The same thing can be said about adding more magic DPS jobs, which is really needed because with just 2 jobs there is no variety at all. Only having 2 magic DPS jobs is unfair while everyone else has more. What we need is to have more magic DPS jobs.

As I've stated before, the negative effects of not adding new specific types of DPS is far less harmful to the health of the game than tanks or healers. Besides that, you nit-pick what counts as a magic job, disregarding two entire jobs that fundamentally play like magic casters only because they aren't fitting your specific idea of a magic job is. I'm sure you'd find some reason to discount Red Mage as a magic job if it is added as a DPS that does attacks in melee range too. Even then, if you enjoy sitting back and casting spells with cast-bars, you have 7 jobs to choose from, regardless if they're DoM or DoW. That's currently over half the jobs in the game.

[StarRosie]

Snip.

I agree, to a point. Having variety is a key thing to keep the players happy, adding more tanks and healers would do that. But, the variety argument can go both ways. What fresh variety does SAM bring to tanking? Yes, sure I've seen you list off SAM's several defensive abilities through the FF series but that doesn't account for the several signature offensive abilities it has that equally argue for it to be a DPS. Heck it could be a pseudo OT like DRG is sometimes in dungeons. If we want variety, lets bring something like Viking in, or Rune Knight, maybe something like Beastmaster where the tamed beast does the tanking, or heck something out of left field like a complete magic user tank. That would be variety, that would be fresh, that would keep things interesting, but adding another sword tank? Would only alleviate the problem temporarily.

Some cons of NOT adding new tank jobs are things like existing tank players getting bored of their current variety and leaving, reducing tank numbers even more.

Again, I disagree with this argument, if this is such an issue, adding new tank jobs would be mandatory every expansion in order to keep the tanking community entertained. If the tanking community is so easily bored, that if they don't get regular content they'll quit tanking or something, then that means there is a problem with the tanking playstyle! Not the amount of jobs within the role. And trust me, there is stuff in the tanking playstyle that should be addressed, I mean...when do you ever use the tank LB? I think there is one fight in the whole game where the Tank LB is mandatory. Could be wrong.

I get what you are trying to say and agree, heck I wholly agree with your last paragraph, I am maxing WAR, my first tank class and I have been having a hecking good time. But by going through this process, I see some of the issues tanking has and why, yes, some people are spooked by tanking. So instead of pumping a bunch of new tank jobs into the game to keep the tank pool satiated, and maybe get a few people to pick a tank class up as an offspec. How about we address and attack the issue that keeps people from trying tanking instead? Again, I'm all for new tank jobs, but I don't think SAM would be a good choice for one and that is my opinion on the matter.

[Anzaman]

No one can actually answer this with any credibility except for SE themselves because they'd actually have the metrics.

Maybe so, but looking at previous years role-% charts, I'm only seeing amount of tanks shrinking.

[StarRosie]

I saw a quote from someone just now: yes please o.o/

Yes but then you have other interviews after the release of Heavensward, where he was asked about that and he says he was split and personally he would want SAM as a DPS. So...it really is a coin toss at this point.