Unofficial Census 2016 for FFXIV

[Chalbee]

I already explained it. Let's say I spend 20 years of my life working hard 24/7 to buy a plane. Now I have plane, get fame, girls, ride friends, tell stories and have fun with it. And next morning goverment decides to give free plane to every person. So in the end I just wasted 20 years of my life for nothing while everyone was spending this time with families, beloved ones, doing fun stuff and enjoing life. Of course that is not fair and I will be mad.

The lesson there is that you should have spent more time enjoying your life, since you clearly realize that is more important than the plane. Did you want a plane because you wanted a plane? Or did you want a plane because you felt like having one would make you better than other people? Given the fact that you basically called all casual players worthless a few pages ago, I'm going to assume it's the latter.

[Thayos]

I already explained it. Let's say I spend 20 years of my life working hard 24/7 to buy a plane. Now I have plane, get fame, girls, ride friends, tell stories and have fun with it. And next morning goverment decides to give free plane to every person. So in the end I just wasted 20 years of my life for nothing while everyone was spending this time with families, beloved ones, doing fun stuff and enjoing life. Of course that is not fair and I will be mad.

The difference though (which many people gloss over) is that while rewards in FFXIV are more quickly "obsoleted" because of the game's vertical design, the tradeoff is that none of these rewards are really that difficult to get in the first place.

The relic weapon is a huge grind, for sure. But is it really hard to get? No. If you play regularly and do minimal activities (such as roulette), you essentially get the relic for free. Nothing in this game is nearly as grindtastic as what we endured in old-school MMOs like FFXI.

Personally, I'm perfectly fine with this tradeoff. Being 13 years older and significantly busier than I was when I took up XI, I'd rather play a game nowadays that didn't require the focus of a second job just to be "viable" or whatever.

And yes, this will result in a playerbase that has more freedom to subscribe/unsubscribe periodically without the fear of being permanently unable to "catch up." But if SE can do a better job of giving people reasons to stick around -- which, in my opinion, means an endgame scene that's more diversified than just raiding -- then we'll see a more consistent and lively playerbase between patches and expansions.

[Vantol]

The lesson there is that you should have spent more time enjoying your life, since you clearly realize that is more important than the plane. Did you want a plane because you wanted a plane? Or did you want a plane because you felt like having one would make you better than other people? Given the fact that you basically called all casual players worthless a few pages ago, I'm going to assume it's the latter.

Yes, it's the latter. I always explicitly say it (well, maybe not in this thread). Is there something wrong with wanting to be better than others or be the best? It's like basics of how humanity and progress works.

[Brian_]

The difference though (which many people gloss over) is that while rewards in FFXIV are more quickly "obsoleted" because of the game's vertical design, the tradeoff is that none of these rewards are really that difficult to get in the first place.

The relic weapon is a huge grind, for sure. But is it really hard to get? No. If you play regularly and do minimal activities (such as roulette), you essentially get the relic for free. Nothing in this game is nearly as grindtastic as what we endured in old-school MMOs like FFXI.

Personally, I'm perfectly fine with this tradeoff. Being 13 years older and significantly busier than I was when I took up XI, I'd rather play a game nowadays that didn't require the focus of a second job just to be "viable" or whatever.

And yes, this will result in a playerbase that has more freedom to subscribe/unsubscribe periodically without the fear of being permanently unable to "catch up." But if SE can do a better job of giving people reasons to stick around -- which, in my opinion, means an endgame scene that's more diversified than just raiding -- then we'll see a more consistent and lively playerbase between patches and expansions.

You think the rewards from A8S are not hard to get? We're talking about content that requires some groups easily over 100 hours of progression to clear.

[Thayos]

You think the rewards from A8S are not hard to get? We're talking about content that requires some groups easily over 100 hours of progression to clear.

I was talking about the game's overall reward system. Most players will never touch A8 let alone get drops from it, so I don't consider that as relevant in a big-picture thread about the game's population.

[Istaru]

You think the rewards from A8S are not hard to get? We're talking about content that requires some groups easily over 100 hours of progression to clear.

Rewards roughly equal to or better than savage rewards are easily available now. And in about 4-6 weeks, all the loot will be obsoleted and the minion can be obtained much easier too.

[Brian_]

I was talking about the game's overall reward system. Most players will never touch A8 let alone get drops from it, so I don't consider that as relevant in a big-picture thread about the game's population.

Then you shouldn't say none of these rewards are that hard to get in the first place. Some clearly are hard to get. And, a lot of people in this topic that you're replying to in a broad sense have made specific complaints about how thankless raiding is in FFXIV and how that contributes to not only the low clear rates but the lack of general interest in the content itself.

Rewards roughly equal to or better than savage rewards are easily available now. And in about 4-6 weeks, all the loot will be obsoleted and the minion can be obtained much easier too.

We're clearly talking about before the proverbial elevator is installed. If you've been following this conversation, you would know that.

[Jynx]

The lesson there is

You are aware we live in a consumer centric world right? Unless your up meditating on the mountains your as guilty of this as the person your trying to shame for it.

People don't get to have everything. That's how our world works. People generally expect to work for a reward and not watch it be given out to someone else for free.

Technically the same mindset works in game for some people.

[zosia]

The lesson there is that you should have spent more time enjoying your life, since you clearly realize that is more important than the plane. Did you want a plane because you wanted a plane? Or did you want a plane because you felt like having one would make you better than other people? Given the fact that you basically called all casual players worthless a few pages ago, I'm going to assume it's the latter.

People ARE learning that lesson, and that's why this game can't retain subscribers. People reach the end game, see it for what it is after 2-3 patches and quit.

[odintius]

You think the rewards from A8S are not hard to get? We're talking about content that requires some groups easily over 100 hours of progression to clear.

Nah, I'm sure he think its hard just isn't worth the time for or effort for such a small reward gear wise well beyond the I like the challenge of it part. For me im not going to waste 7 other peoples time if i think the reward for it wasn't such a bore well to keep repeating it for others. /shrug