Unofficial Census 2016 for FFXIV

[Sanghelios]

... the cost to 100K, you might feel a bit differently. Chances are the next mount they put in the gold saucer for 1M, you wouldn't want to actually participate in getting it. That's the problem people are having.

Anyone that farmed red scrips in patches 3.0 - 3.3 probably know this feeling very well when the gear they earned was given away for blue scrips. You start to ask yourself 2 questions... why did i bother doing that? and why would i bother doing it again?

Thats well spoken. Actually same for ponys. I did farm them when drop rates were low, just to see them raining down from heaven a while after. Now in this patch circle, i did only farm one bird and cba to farm all the others again, because i know its super pointless as square will do the same as they did with pony droprates. Same goes for literally every other content, let it be scripts or whatever. I like this game, but those things are really annoying after you did it once and i can see myself leaving this game one day just because of those points.

[Vantol]

Thats well spoken. Actually same for ponys. I did farm them when drop rates were low, just to see them raining down from heaven a while after. Now in this patch circle, i did only farm one bird and cba to farm all the others again, because i know its super pointless as square will do the same as they did with pony droprates. Same goes for literally every other content, let it be scripts or whatever. I like this game, but those things are really annoying after you did it once and i can see myself leaving this game one day just because of those points.

That's exactly my point and I don't understand how some people think it's allright. We used to have pony farms all the time during 2.0 in my FC, large one. Now we didn't farm any bird once since 3.0 release, because there is literally 1 person who asks for farm, other 200-300 people say "Just wait for 4.0 and get all birds in a few days", me including. How is this game design can be close to being "allright"?

[Tolmos]

For most people it makes them not want to bother if in 2 patches the thing they spent a bunch of time on is just given away in a cash shop or w/e. If your the one that spent 1M MGP on a fenrir mount, then the devs turn around 2 months later and lower the cost to 100K, you might feel a bit differently. Chances are the next mount they put in the gold saucer for 1M, you wouldn't want to actually participate in getting it. That's the problem people are having.

Anyone that farmed red scrips in patches 3.0 - 3.3 probably know this feeling very well. When the gear they earned was given away for blue scrips. You start to ask yourself 2 questions... why did i bother doing that? and why would i want to do it again?

I've experienced this situation multiple times across various MMOs, I just never really experienced the emotional response that others seem to describe. I usually think "good for them" and move on, because I'm working on the next thing. I'm not getting these rewards to become a special snowflake; I'm getting them because I want the rewards, and enjoy playing the game. It's a double win for me.

Maybe it's just a personal thing, but I get some enjoyment out of other people getting to have things they want as well, rather than getting upset by it. How I attained the rewards, and how they attained it, is entirely irrelevant to me.

[Instrumentality]

Chances are the next mount they put in the gold saucer for 1M, you wouldn't want to actually participate in getting it. That's the problem people are having.

Anyone that farmed red scrips in patches 3.0 - 3.3 probably know this feeling very well. When the gear they earned was given away for blue scrips. You start to ask yourself 2 questions... why did i bother doing that? and why would i want to do it again?

Something becoming easier later on does not diminish the value of an achievement done before that point.

Like beating second coil savage before 3.0 or clearing gordias before 3.2. I don't suddenly feel bad when people get to roll into a4s and steamroll it with echo. Instead, I think something like "Thank heavens, nobody should have to suffer like we did." I'll feel the same way when they nerf Midas and introduce echo for it, as well.

[Tolmos]

Instead, I think something like "Thank heavens, nobody should have to suffer like we did." I'll feel the same way when they nerf Midas and introduce echo for it, as well.

This, too. I've had several moments in my MMOing history where I've finished a god awful grind, hit the forums and suggested reducing it just because I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. lol

[thegreatonemal]

For most people it makes them not want to bother if in 2 patches the thing they spent a bunch of time on is just given away in a cash shop or w/e. If your the one that spent 1M MGP on a fenrir mount, then the devs turn around 2 months later and lower the cost to 100K, you might feel a bit differently. Chances are the next mount they put in the gold saucer for 1M, you wouldn't want to actually participate in getting it. That's the problem people are having.

Anyone that farmed red scrips in patches 3.0 - 3.3 probably know this feeling very well. When the gear they earned was given away for blue scrips. You start to ask yourself 2 questions... why did i bother doing that? and why would i want to do it again?

You did it for the gil. you did it to gather those materials to either sell or make your own 220 crafted gear for free and get ahead of everyone who had to relie on midas normal with their weekly loot lockout rng drops. You did it so when they did make that stuff blue scripts you were already in a position to make you're new ironworks stuff again for free and to make money off the lazy people.

Them getting it later does not effect you in anyway you had it when it was still useful in the current tier. they get it when its catch up gear while your preparing to make a lot more money and get gear to get you ahead of the game in the next raid tier.

[Critical-Limit]

I personally find everything besides raiding to be super boringly easily. And I find raiding not worth the hours as the rewards are just my own sense of accomplishment that is in the hands of 7 other people to complete. And the reward is so short term and minor all that trouble to me isn't worth it.

I like horizontal progression. Glamour is horizontal progression in this game which is why I really do feel like it's end game. Glamour and leveling your jobs are the only real lasting things in the game.

Want my participation in raiding? Make exclusive glamour. But hey I'm just one person.

[odintius]

So what I got out of this is people just stay unsub even after a new patch is release wait a few months for nerfs to save some gil ect, because it really not worth the effort to be put into anyways. >.>

[aesteval]

That said, I still struggle to understand where the issue is... but I fail to see how schadenfreude is supposed to increase my enjoyment of the game...

I think part of the issue comes down to more general player engagement and less about personal accomplishment. Having an attainable goal to accomplish will keep a player engaged over a period of time. Nerfing something may eventually boost interest in that activity at time of nerf, but being able to predict the nerf is also going to dissuade some players to putting forth the effort earlier. Some of the drop rates and decisions are really erratic. In the coffin lid case it was way too rare when it was rare and is now way too common now that it isn't rare. The drop rate went from one extreme to another and lacks any sort of balance. I think I may also have to agree on the drop rate on Thavnairian gear with Aquapolis. Incentive needs to be balanced somewhere.

[Thayos]

Ibi and Zosia, both of you are talking about fundamentally different (yet equally important) things.

Zosia, you're saying that raiders won't put in the time to raid unless the rewards are good. And that seems logical.

Ibi, you're saying that improving the rewards in raiding won't suddenly cause people who dislike raiding to suddenly start enjoying raids. That also seems logical!

Both of these things are true. That's why I keep repeating that ultimately -- even if raids were to drop gear that automatically scaled to be the highest-level drops for the rest of the game's life -- SE needs to diversify the endgame scene so there's more to do than raiding.

SE must address both points.

That said, my feeling is Ibi's point is taking a much larger toll on XIV's population than the issue of whether the raid community is happy, because raiders have always made up such a small portion of the overall playerbase. Raiding is an old-school endgame mentality that really is going out of style with both younger gamers and older, busier gamers.