I guess it's time

[Lorielle]

Incoming I am wrong because I am wrong post.

OBJECTION!

To my understanding, all the formulas, rotations, stat building set ups people do to all jobs which have a decent levels of complexity to their job to even be somewhat good at it while taking on content that has you moving and more engaged? Yes...instant gratification. You know I could just let my weapon just to get 100TP and use Tachi: Gekko right? If we want to talk about simplifying a system.

Formulas? I mean, I feel like the only two formulas worth considering is Spell Speed and Skill Speed. Beyond those two, everything else is pretty cut and dry, not even worth noting much. Your secondary stats aren't exactly worth racking your head over. No need to make them sound -that- complex when in reality it is far from it. The only ones I see having any complexity in stat building are healers for DPSing purposes in raiding...which perhaps 80-90% of the population doesn't delve too deep in that aspect. The mechanics we've seen aren't exactly new ones. You could fumble your rotations on most of the content and still complete it because most of the content doesn't require you to -perfect- it to the T. Just do mechanics so you don't stress your healers as much. As long as your healer and tank are competent, they could actually carry most of the group.

A Samurai example? That's nice. XI's complexity(Samurai anyway) didn't derive solely from sitting there and getting TP to WS. It came from your gear setups and equipment swapping. You can be that Samurai who's just doing 8-10 hit builds, in turn doing terrible overall damage. Or you can be that Samurai with 5 hit builds. All depending on the gear you had available. But funny enough, just because you could achieve a 5 Hit Build doesn't mean it was the best thing because your speed/accuracy/attack could suffer just from stacking Store TP only.

Was the mob actions something to be concerned about? Not to the degree of XIV, but there are some fights that did require you to do more than just "sit there and spam WS".

You can't compare ARR's job balance to FFXI's. There is no job currently in the game that is on the side line. At worst there are preferred set ups based on your party composition, but there is no job that is straight up not allowed in end game like FFXI's. Go ask Puppetmasters if you do not believe me. And don't pretend in FFXI it was an elitist thing, even midcores had this concept.

Were you even around when Gordias and Astrologian first came to be? Do you remember the thousands of threads saying Astrologian was inferior to White Mage? Yes, this was a thing. A lot of people didn't take Astrologian because it "couldn't keep up". Now that is to say that the content wasn't impossible with one. People proved otherwise. But it put stress on the other players, more than what was necessary. Players opted to go WHM/SCH because it is that easier and safer. AST have been excluded back then. However, I'll let you have this one since you said "currently" after tons of changes and balances. Though I still don't see where you're seeing the exclusion of anything. I'm not really trying to be "blind" to prove a point because I remember LolDRG being a staple as I was one. There is ALWAYS going to be something more beneficial. Nothing gets "excluded" unless you're dealing with a ignorant player. Those exist everywhere. So I apologize your experiences differ so greatly from my own and it seems someone else in the thread disagrees as well.

The only thing complex about FFXI's battle system was the elemental wheel and skill chains. Those were two things that helped cause a lot of imbalance to the game. Even then nothing was more powerful than BLM's Thunder 4. They couldn't even balance potency right.

While elemental wheel and skill chains were quite complex in their own right, I disagree it was the only thing. Perhaps I don't see a real issue with the BLM's ability to do spike damage for their MP cost. If anything, I'd look over some Melee numbers because the number of WS they could put out was far greater DoT than what BLM was capable of. Though End Game was far different because you didn't necessarily want too many people feeding TP.

I offer criticism of this game's system and job balance all the time. I am more negative than positive on the decisions the developers make on this game. It doesn't mean I want them to tear everything down and put something even worse in here. The foundation is solid, the battle system is solid, it is only the execution can be left to be desired at times. I offer criticism that can actually have potential despite how silly it may be because it works in the context of the battle system. More than anyone just saying "just make it FFXI's battle system."

To each their own. But never once did I ask for "change it to XI's battle system". Only that I ask for more depth because the rotations from each job are so simple that it doesn't require much thought. Again, outside of MCH which is you at RNG's mercy. I suppose BLM is a fair example depending on the pace of the fight.

There is good from FFXI. It is just a shame what people want from it is what was wrong and outdated about it. I myself have always suggested we get a Nyzul Isle like content because it can work in the context of this game. Ohh and look...they did! Palace of the Dead coming in 3.35.

As someone else mentioned...Palace of the Dead is a good concept. But I don't hold my expectations high because of how the game rewards its players. It's going to be nothing more than glamour because everyone has to be on equal footing. We can't make this content "mandatory". Clear it once. What incentive do you have to go back in? "For the fun of it"? Sure. If that floats your boat, then power to you.