I guess it's time

[LalafellDown]

am I really the only one who has that constant feeling that whenever you log in you just stand around doing nothing or run another mind numbing soulless daily you think to yourself, "why am I still playing? why am I logged in right now?".

Nope you're not, I find myself bored with the fact nothing has changed over the years I don't bother with dailies anymore or dungeons unless I have to for my relic (which I finished). The dungeons are the same straight lines with adds and bosses and nothing to explore in the world or dungeon (Guild Wars 2 got it right with exploration all my character slots were used because I enjoyed starting over and exploring). If deep dungeon offers the same thing (kill adds then boss... repeat) I think I will move on to something else. Hopefully 4.0 offers great changes. Taking breaks does nothing when you come back to a game that offers nothing fun, but only grinding. Grinding that gets replaced with more grinding every patch why is that fun? With Guild Wars 2 I never even thought of the word grinding. I had fun exploring all sorts of caves/under water caverns filled with loot, monsters and puzzles. Wish this game kept some of the 1.x maps and just combined with what we have now.

[Azrael]

This is another kind of problem which I didn't speak about in my topic, but I would also add my opinion.
I have been playing since 1.0, I know some people that got almost 700 days of playtime, while I have only 303, considering I have been on this game for 5-6 years, i don't consider that "a lot".
I took more than 1 break from this game, and I don't agree with people saying "if you are bored then you are burned out and you should take a break from the game".
This has nothing to do with burning out, there is really nothing to do in this game.
I know a lot of people, including myself, that waste their time in front of a market board/run around without reason various hours a day (me included sometimes, until i realize i'm doing nothing "productive").
I shouldn't be forced to make 7 relics or complete all the achievement log to prove that there is something to do, those are extra (expensive, and boring) activities.
3.0 is not even an expansion, it felt like a big patch and nothing else, since everything is just the same as before, with the exception that we have to keep replaying the same content for 2 more years.
I know i'm one of those saying "let's wait for 4.0 hopefully something will change" well i'm starting to believe nothing will change, because they probably want to stick with the same formula until this game dies, I'm starting to think they don't even care to get better, probably they don't even care if they lose subscriptions.
I think that the only thing that's keeping this game alive is the lovely art design, and the lack of good alternatives at the moment.

[HappyHubris]

You'll find this thread in every MMO forum. Three truths:
1) Developers will never create traditional MMO content as quickly as their most prolific players consume it. If you play 10, 20, or 30+ hours a week you're never going to feel satisfied with any one MMO.
2) Over time, we get bored with games and game systems. It's tough for a franchise to keep interest when you're slamming similar buttons with a similar art style for years on end.

It's unrealistic to play one MMO many hours a week for years and not get bored.

[Braden]

You'll find this thread in every MMO forum. Three truths:
1) Developers will never create traditional MMO content as quickly as their most prolific players consume it. If you play 10, 20, or 30+ hours a week you're never going to feel satisfied with any one MMO.
2) Over time, we get bored with games and game systems. It's tough for a franchise to keep interest when you're slamming similar buttons with a similar art style for years on end.

It's unrealistic to play one MMO many hours a week for years and not get bored.

Not really truths. Alot of people, myself included, played FFXI for around a decade or more. Now my first 2 years, I played an unhealthy amount. It was not good, I was in college, no job. After that though, I've been a casual player. At no point did I ever have the best up to date gear sets, but I was very satisfied. Because, I always had content to do and gear to earn.

[Grux]

On another note, why do people play D3 over and over again as it's the same thing.

Hint:
Customization.
The want to be different.
Trying out different builds.
Min/maxing equips.
The 'hunt' for something worthwhile.

(Not a fair comparison, but hey.)

[Brian_]

The troubling thing to me is that even with the excuse that they are stressed on resources, it really doesn't feel like they're making good use of the resources they do have.

For example, LoV and Diadem were just a straight waste of resources. Each new PvP release instantly invalidates the older BGs. They are wasting a lot of time designing and tuning a normal difficulty raid that is obsolete very quickly.

I think they genuinely need to take a good hard look at their content budgeting and the overall game production. If you're going to invest a lot of resources into alternative content like Diadem, LoV, and Deep Dungeon, you better make sure they are worth the content they are replacing. The concept of LoV was bewildering at the onset -- a niche genre RTS inside a niche genre MMO? Are we supposed to be surprised at how few people play it? Diadem's flaws were apparent within days of release and should've been foreseeable.

I don't know if the solution is to incorporate a small but varied PTR limited to NDA bound individuals to test specific content because I really feel the dev team is completely out of touch at times. Who exactly thought the tuning of Gordias Savage was okay? Their testers that didn't even beat the fights themselves? Who thought "between FCoB and SCoB" was a good description of Midas Savage? When they were rebooting FFXIV they said that they'd really listen to the community this time around. TBH, I think they've fallen back into the bad habit of not listening.

[Brian_]

So I figured I'd provide some more specifics about how easy I think their content planning could be fixed.

For PvP --
1. Have the PvP rewards (the mounts, the achievement gear) require a mix of BGs.
2. Make PvP currency and EXP matter. Perhaps move some of the out-dated rewards to purchased rewards (obviously expensive).
3. Have the Frontline roulette rotate BGs just like how the adventurer in need bonus works. Increase the bonuses to really add incentives.
4. Add weekly or weekend BG bonuses.

That ensures that people will do all the BGs, get a much wider experience of FFXIV PvP, and keep the content alive much longer. I can't see how that would take much effort on SE's end.

For PvE, I think the changes need to be more drastic. First off, I think their current structure is backwards. It makes no sense to release your hardest content first, burn out all your casuals and mid-cores, then release a catch-up patch. There should be linear content progression, not this current jumbled mess rife with dead-on-arrival content.

Just looking at 3.2-->3.3-->3.4-->3.5 as an example --

3.2 -- 2 EX Dungeons, Sephirot --> Zurvan --> Sophia (NM), Sephirot --> Zurvan --> Sophia (EX), Weeping City of Mhach

3.3 -- 2 EX Dungeons, Nidhogg NM, Nidhogg EX, single difficulty Alexander Midas, other alternative content.

Combined, that's 4 trials, 4 HM/EXs, one 24-man, and 4 floors of Midas. That's not significantly more work than the current 2 trials, 2 HM/EXs, one 24-man, 4 floors of Midas, and 4 floors of Savage. It's just 2 new fights in terms of aesthetics. But, in terms of content progression, it's significantly smoother and gives mid-core players much more to work with.

The Warring Triad series could drop weapons and right-sides. Weeping City obviously drops left-sides. Lore gear's upgrades would not be available until 3.3. The progression and gear will mean more because even HC players will be incentivized to do the content to prep for Alexander. Right now, Alexander Midas Normal was useless to raiders after 1 clear. Nidhogg is dead content to a raider past A7S. Weeping City is worthless to them, too. Of course there will be a feeling of nothing to do when much of the content is pointless on or shortly after release. For your casual / mid-core player, this gives them an actual path of progression rather than a bunch of face-roll content, 1 EX trial, and then a mile-high wall called Savage. Sephirot --> Zurvan --> Sophia EX could be a slow difficulty ramp that will prep people for Midas and help foster a healthier and stronger PuG / static scene.

3.4 -- implementation of massive echo or NM Alexander Midas to open up the story to casuals, next 24-man raid, some new NM and EX trials.

3.5 -- NM MSQ trial, EX MSQ trial, final wing of Alexander, other alternative content.

3.6 -- small patch adding echo to the final wing of Alexander or a NM mode ahead of the next expansion.

With this set-up, the progression path for 3.4-->3.5 is where they should end up. Echo / NM Alexander Midas (face-roll) --> NM trials (normal) / 24-man (normal) --> EX trials (hard) --> EX MSQ trial (harder) --> Alexander (hardest). Real ramping progression. That's compared to now where it's a complete mess -- Alexander Midas NM (face-roll) / Sephirot NM (face-roll) --> Sephirot EX (hard) / Alexander Savage (hardest) --> Nidhogg (normal) / Mhach (normal) --> Nidhogg EX (hard).

[Iromi]

^same here.

Played FFXI for years for hours on end and never got bored or burnt out.

[Grux]

/signed

It is true though. Though there are ups and downs between the start of an expansion and midway through. Some of the contents are just plain grindy (a chore).

It's kinda ok for the working population such as myself as I have something to do after work.. though roulettes every night is getting really old really fast.

Also the majority of the players are casual to mid-core.

There should be better content to be able to address that.

I'm sure Deep Dungeon will accomplish this somehow - until they increase the floor caps at every patch, but what about in between?

What do?

[Iromi]

I already said pages back that I would gladly go back to FFXI, but it is no longer the same game. They changed it far too much with ilvl, small servers that need merging, etc. Lol Seraphix2407, I think Dorander is a lost cause, and keeps passively telling people to quit :/ Funny thing is apparently that is against ToS to tell someone to quit in game. >.> But anyway, nah people are just giving good suggestions and things they'd like added, optional things, like everything else in FFXIV.

That is what this forum is for, suggestions and feedback to help the devs stay in touch with their players. And no...no one is "burnt out" per say, they are tired of playing the same game with a different skin since 2.0, so they are offering constructive ideas. Discouraging people from doing that..and encouraging them to just leave and not say anything is a really poor idea. Again, I've never got "burnt out" on a hobby of mine before, why would I? They are always enjoyable, no matter how many times I partake in them.

Ah, also..again, I have completed everything in this game and feel it is still lacking things in terms of diversity and longevity. So..can't use the "you dont do all the content" card on me really :x

And I haven't seen anyone "championing" FFXI, I have seen people state facts, that they never got bored in XI. The fact of the matter is, there was content in 1.23/1.x series that have some longevity, the dev team can do it, they just do not for some odd reason. I also dislike how its acceptable to mention WoW here, but mention FFXI and prepare for crucifixion. Well whatever, I for one will keep giving suggestions and letting Yoshida and the devs know how I feel to help them know what people are thinking. Yoshida seems genuinely interested in what people have to say and is a good listener, so it is worth a shot