Don't be "that DPS"

[Artemiz]

I and many others will NOT throttle back for the things you simply can AND refuse to do.

Well YOU could always cycle the mobs if you start getting too much hate, but I guess you only apply this logic to others but not yourself. The tank must be perfect and manage hate on multiple mobs but you can tunnel vision on one mob and desregard everything else. Alternatively, you could just work with your party instead of against it and be a good DPS.

Hate is a group effort, anyone who has a clue about how to work as a team will already know this and I don't care how bad ass you think you are if you're constantly pulling hate and making your healer and tanks life more difficult then you're a bad DPS. Sure the tank might be bad too but that's no excuse.

If I pull hate straight after shield lob with a thundercloud or firestarter proc and screw the pull up then that's my fault, not the tanks. If I start pulling hate with sustained damage then I have to throttle back or change target because a little less damage is better than hate being a mess and one DPS laying KO on the floor.

Sure, some tanks are awful and can't really do the job properly, but if we're talking about a competent tank that does flash and that does use the right rotation then it's up the the DPS to work with what they've got, not cause chaos and blame the tank.

[RiisWolf]

Alternatively, you could just work with your party instead of against it and be a good DPS.

What part of " . ..for the things you simply can AND refuse to do." do you not understand?

[Artemiz]

What part of " . ..for the things you simply can AND refuse to do." do you not understand?

The part where you make out you take hate all the time on different jobs and blame the tank for it. It's your responsibility too yet you refuse to throttle back, you even apologise if the tank is undergeared meaning you do it to new tanks too. That's a bad DPS. For further information, read my previous post again

Honestly, as a BLM main I could tank as much as I wanted and the tank wouldn't be able to do much about it, especially DF tanks. It's not about me being a bad ass, it's about working together and showing each other a little respect.

[Kabooa]

The part where you make out you take hate all the time on different jobs and blame the tank for it. It's your responsibility too yet you refuse to throttle back, you even apologise if the tank is undergeared meaning you do it to new tanks too. That's a bad DPS. For further information, read my previous post again

Honestly, as a BLM main I could tank as much as I wanted and the tank wouldn't be able to do much about it, especially DF tanks. It's not about me being a bad ass, it's about working together and showing each other a little respect.

No competent tank should lose threat to a responsible black mage.

Being a responsible black mage doesn't mean throttling yourself because everything's orange. It means you you give a few seconds of leeway before going balls to the wall. The only tank that might have an issue with this is the Paladin. Dark Knights and Warriors have no excuse, assuming gear is equal.

[Artemiz]

No competent tank should lose threat to a responsible black mage.

For the most part I completely agree with you, though it's worth pointing out the BLM opener can be pretty spicy and quelling strikes becomes mandatory at some point. The key word for me though is responsible, I was trying to point out that DPS also have a responsibility where hate is concerned. I can't just focus one mob with a RR enhanced Fire 4 rotation in an AoE pull and blame the tank when it causes problems, I can't pick a mob that the tank has clearly not focused on yet and pull it away and blame the tank. When playing my PLD I do see this a lot, in a pull of 3 mobs and both DPS pick a different one to go balls to the wall on, I can always use voke obviously but I'd argue the team synergy isn't exactly brilliant in that situation and could be better. What we end up with is two mobs dying slowly instead of one dying twice as fast, resulting in more work for both healer and tank.

Being a responsible black mage doesn't mean throttling yourself because everything's orange. It means you you give a few seconds of leeway before going balls to the wall. The only tank that might have an issue with this is the Paladin. Dark Knights and Warriors have no excuse, assuming gear is equal.

I'd say giving a few seconds leeway is throttling back to be honest. The point you make about gear (and skill) being equal is very important, an undergeared tank needs to be treated with kid gloves by a better geared DPS, especially if it's one of the big hitting burst types like BLM. As long as someone meets the minimum ilvl requirement for the instance and is obviously trying then I try to work with them and see their hate level as the ceiling I have to get close to but not go over. That to me is a good, responsible DPS.
I mean sure, I don't like it when WAR's don't use Overpower or PLD's don't flash but the amount of tanks I come across that are that bad are quite rare and I use DF a lot, usually after the first pull (where hate can be a little messy) they get the picture and raise their game a bit. That said I'm not above spreading thunder around before going full AoE if they're really struggling with hate, or even sticking to single target if it's really that bad.

[nitaZ28]

Hate is a group effort, anyone who has a clue about how to work as a team will already know this and I don't care how bad ass you think you are if you're constantly pulling hate and making your healer and tanks life more difficult then you're a bad DPS. Sure the tank might be bad too but that's no excuse.

Wow, this one gets it.

Good answer to the "it's the tank's job to clean up after me" attitude of yet another lazy, irresponsible DPS.

I actually think these clowns should spend some time playing a tank. Certainly I wouldn't expect them to learn much. That requires responsibility, and insight, which they lack. That's why they are DPS in the first place. But at the minimum they could transfer some of the (granted, small amount due to their limitations) gained knowledge of what it's like being a tank---> over to their job as DPS.

[ShanaShirayuki]

Hate is a group effort, anyone who has a clue about how to work as a team will already know this and I don't care how bad ass you think you are if you're constantly pulling hate and making your healer and tanks life more difficult then you're a bad DPS. Sure the tank might be bad too but that's no excuse.

If the tank is bad then that's his/her fault for not researching their role/class properly, potentially forcing the 3/7 others to carry him/her. So I don't know where you get off thinking it's a DPS issue. Multidotting is key to being a good DPS, and should not be limited by a bad tank, no excuses (Shadewalker can be used in such situations).

I actually think these clowns should spend some time playing a tank. Certainly I wouldn't expect them to learn much. That requires responsibility, and insight, which they lack. That's why they are DPS in the first place. But at the minimum they could transfer some of the (granted, small amount due to their limitations) gained knowledge of what it's like being a tank---> over to their job as DPS.

Ignorant, sweeping generalizations... further countered by this (though a couple exceptions do exist):

DPS has to deal with timers, delays in their own moves, random procs, positionals, every new wrench to their long list of chores to deal high amounts of damage, more mechanics than a Tank will EVER be responsible for, being randomly targeted by bosses most of the time, and having to depend on the tank to do their job. But no, let's just pretend DPS is so lazy and free of responsibilities.

Funny how Nita and Artemiz preach it's a groupwide effort but only find faults in those playing DPS.

[Artemiz]

If the tank is bad then that's his/her fault for not researching their role/class properly, potentially forcing the 3/7 others to carry him/her. So I don't know where you get off thinking it's a DPS issue. Multidotting is key to being a good DPS, and should not be limited by a bad tank, no excuses (Shadewalker can be used in such situations).

I said it was a group effort in the very quote you posted, DPS are part of that group if you hadn't noticed. I like how you say no excuses too like gear level differences and skill differences aren't a thing.

Funny how Nita and Artemiz preach it's a groupwide effort but only find faults in those playing DPS.

Maybe that's because I was responding to someone who was refusing to take resonsibility for there own action as a DPS and the fact that this entire thread is about bad DPS. You should stop posting silly pictures and do more reading, you could do with the practice.

[ShanaShirayuki]

Snip

I never said anything about a low gear level, if that was the case I'd understand. My response was directly aimed at your comment of how if a tank is bad then it's still the DPSs fault for pulling aggro.

If you're going to debate someone, don't take his or her words and twist them to fit your argument, makes you seem more ignorant than the point you were trying to make. I'll also disregard your improper use of "there", even if you insulted my reading comprehension. If all you can do is attack the person and not their argument, then don't even bother replying.

[Artemiz]

I never said anything about a low gear level, if that was the case I'd understand. My response was directly aimed at your comment of how if a tank is bad then it's still the DPSs fault for pulling aggro.

If you're going to debate someone, don't take his or her words and twist them to fit your argument, makes you seem more ignorant than the point you were trying to make. I'll also disregard your improper use of "there", even if you insulted my reading comprehension. If all you can do is attack the person and not their argument, then don't even bother replying.

I didn't twist your words, you said no excuses. That's an absolute statement and you didn't specify exactly what the scenario was, just no excuses. If you meant only in endgame raiding and extreme trials you should have stated that.

Thanks for "disregarding" my grammatical error by the way, means a lot. I did notice it actually just after I posted but couldn't be bothered to edit it out. Also, I did attack your argument, what little you made of one anyway.