Don't be "that DPS"

[Februs]

The multipliers on enmity skills are very generous.

That's true for War's and Drks, but not Pld's. Their enmity multipliers are substantially lower than the other two tanks on ALL of their enmity generation moves. That's a fact. The numbers were outed a long time ago. As much as most of the Tank community understand why SE came to that decision, it doesn't really work as intended and definitely does not fit the current meta of the game.

Pld's also lack a spam-able AoE that does dmg. CoS is oGCD and pitifully weak, and Flash is a joke compared to Overpower or Unleash. It's the reason that Pld's often have the hardest time holding hate, especially if the Dps out-gear them by even a small amount.

That being said, you are right that if a level 60 player is using their tool kit correctly they should, most certainly, have no problems keeping enmity at equal gear levels. That includes Pld.

That aside, you are wrong to say that Threat management is solely the tank's responsibility. The tanks carry most of the responsibility for managing hate, that's true, but not all. Everyone can pull. Everyone generates threat. Everyone is responsible for their actions when in a party. There is no excuse for a Dps to be power focusing a mob that the tank has not even attacked yet, let alone blaming the tank for not holding hate on that mob. There's no excuse for 2 Dps to split their dmg output across multiple mobs (which slows things down considerably) and dividing the tanks attention instead of working together. There's no excuse for Dps to run off and face-pull mobs either by accident (in which case you are not paying attention to your position) or on purpose (in which case you're being a dick and should have Q'd as a tank). Just because you are Dps does not mean that you get a free pass to not pay attention.

This is a team-based game. You're supposed to work with your party, not against it. The Tanks and Healers should not feel like they are baby-sitting single-minded Dps who are only focused on themselves, especially considering the Tanks and Healers are the only thing stopping the Dps from getting ground up into red paste.

[cynical_baby]

As a Ninja main: Shadewalker. No problems.

[Callback]

As a Ninja, if I get bored and decide it's time to pull, you're pulling whether you like it or not. Shade + Huton and it's all yours.

[Artemiz]

As a Ninja, if I get bored and decide it's time to pull, you're pulling whether you like it or not. Shade + Huton and it's all yours.

As a tank I pull certain enemies, in certain ways at certain times to certain places, all in the name of organisation. When DPS "get bored" and pull for me they almost always cock everything up. Like the BLM in DD earlier today who thought he'd speed things up by pulling a toad into the group we where fighting, as a result the DRG got knocked off the ledge and KO'd, slowing everything down more than if he'd let me do my job.

Just let the tank pull, he's probably more in tune with the healer anyway which might be why he's not pulling half the dungeon at a time. If you get tired of slow tanks then level one yourself and do it yourself.

[Rawrz]

This! People get so up tight about doing their jobs that it seems as though they forget they're running in an actual party. Pop those enmity cooldowns and help the tank and the rest of the party out. Just today, I had to pop a few enmity cooldowns 'cause I kept ripping the aggro off of the tank 'cause that could cause a wipe if the healer has to then focus on healing the tank, me, and trying to keep aggro off of themselves as well but even then, the healer has enmity cooldowns as well...as everyone else. Please don't act like the tank is the only one responsible for aggro maintenance; you're in a party so working together in every aspect is recommended.

I dont have any enmity Cool downs on SCH. Selene doesnt Generate/split aggro like Eos can. :C #BuffPLsScholartooWeak

[Malicewolf]

Well, I main a PLD, and I just leveled up a NIN. As a tank, I always keep track of my CoS CD. If i see a trash mob is close to dead (or going to die before my CoS is reset) I simply save it. The reason being exactly this topic. I shield lob, flash, then CoS. This gives me a good hold on everything if I notice DPS are hitting everything hard immediately upon pulls. Sometimes even pop FoF before CoS as well if it's really bad. This usually gives me enough time to start going through my enmity rotation to hold (granted, i also STR tank, so that may help as well). Usually I can hold, but no doubt, it can be tough if DPS go with huge openers.

Now, the reason I brought up NIN is because I now understand their point of view as well. As a NIN in a lvl 50+ dungeon, I REALLY started disliking slow tanks who decide to wait a minute between every pull. Because my Huton only lasts 1 minute! It's really annoying that they wait JUST long enough for it to wear off, then I pop a new one (wasting my ninjitsu CD for a bit or forced to use kassatsu) and they pull. I can just continue my huton indefinitely (practically) if you move at even a semi decent pace. But I'm also a BIG proponent of mitigation as a tank... If the healer ain't putting stoneskins on the party, I will hold us up to do so.

And Raiton isn't that bad in comparison to a well placed sneak or trick attack with a suiton. I've ripped hate off tanks real quick with those when Shadewalker was on CD and I do it early.

[Istede]

Frankly I am tired of people being coddled. PLD does have issues with AoE threat, and yeah, sometimes people behave inappropriately in instances, but everyone is so quick to /soothe rather than address the issues.

It is important to be considerate of other peoples\\' time when you are running an instance, especially in duty finder. If someone is putting in effort and not quite measuring up, that\\'s okay. The issue is that about half of those people become angry when you try to give them some constructive critcism, or politely ask them to perform a basic function of their role.

This is not an elitist attitude, it is a courteous one. I am coming ready to play. I will do my best to make the run as fast and as painless as possible. I expect the same from everyone else. Yes people can act inappropriately, but 9 times out of 10 what I see are people who don\\'t even read the tooltips on their skills and expect a trophy for merely showing up.

[Ephier]

Frankly I am tired of people being coddled. PLD does have issues with AoE threat, and yeah, sometimes people behave inappropriately in instances, but everyone is so quick to /soothe rather than address the issues.

It is important to be considerate of other peoples\\' time when you are running an instance, especially in duty finder. If someone is putting in effort and not quite measuring up, that\\'s okay. The issue is that about half of those people become angry when you try to give them some constructive critcism, or politely ask them to perform a basic function of their role.

This is not an elitist attitude, it is a courteous one. I am coming ready to play. I will do my best to make the run as fast and as painless as possible. I expect the same from everyone else. Yes people can act inappropriately, but 9 times out of 10 what I see are people who don\\'t even read the tooltips on their skills and expect a trophy for merely showing up.

Istede just ended the thread. That is all.

[HoodRat]

My favorite one is when tanks spend 5 minutes marking every mob before every trash pull thinking it will help them keep aggro, then they facepull the group and only attack a single mob so when I multidot and aoe, I become the tank.

[nitaZ28]

My favorite one is when tanks spend 5 minutes marking every mob before every trash pull thinking it will help them keep aggro, then they facepull the group and only attack a single mob so when I multidot and aoe, I become the tank.

I would surmise that the tank marked those mobs because (s)he wanted them attacked in an order, not AoE. Did you misunderstand?